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Ask HN: We're being censored. Why?

submitted by Sone7+(OP) on 2018-03-13 16:43:50 | 40 points 52 comments
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This article (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16576569) was flagged and removed from the news pages.

Not even a flimsy excuse was given.

It is such an important topic - a person who ran a black site and destroyed the evidence before Congress could see it is now able to look at all our dick pics. This one shouldn't be shoved down the memory hole.

My comment on it is permanently compressed (even when the thread is opened in an entirely different browser) and has been stuck on 11 points. It's fucking weird, and I've never seen that on HN before.

As another commenter pointed out, informative and well sourced comments on the thread are flagged and grayed to oblivion. While most commenting has stopped since the page disappeared, there are a number of suspicious commenters still deflecting and inciting people in dumb directions.

Is this who you are HN?


NOTE: showing posts with links only show all posts
3. johnma+j3[view] [source] 2018-03-13 17:11:18
>>Sone7+(OP)
> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.

From the guidelines. (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

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11. Sone7+z5[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-03-13 17:25:25
>>Exuma+c3
Oh look it's happening again. The people who think this article might not be "drivel" are being grayed within minutes.

And by the way, this censorship happens on tech stories too. This article from three months ago wasn't even flagged, just didn't show up until page 3 or 4 despite being new and having tons of comments - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15745363.

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14. Sone7+Y5[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-03-13 17:28:03
>>hashma+o4
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15745363

This story from 3 months ago is as tech-related (Google changing their algorithm) as you can get. It wasn't visibly flagged, but was almost certainly de-ranked, and it wasn't just me who commented about it.

Even if you can buy the excuse that this isn't related to tech or start-ups, and ignore the very active commenting on it, you're still left with the utter refusal to allow any transparency about what is flagged and de-ranked. Why shouldn't we demand better?

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27. dang+cc[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-03-13 18:04:25
>>snackp+0b
Our email address is all over the place but the best way to find it is via https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, so you get a refresher on the site rules before you email us. Sometimes a question will answer itself along the way.
29. dang+Ed[view] [source] 2018-03-13 18:12:56
>>Sone7+(OP)
Users flag stories that they don't think fit the site guidelines. That's all that happened here.

I get that you disagree. People disagree about this all the time, often strongly. I doubt there's a single story that every user agrees belongs on HN.

The only unusual thing in this case is the drama you've created about it. We can debate whether a CIA director nomination belongs on HN, but there's no question that the above submission and your comments are breaking the site guidelines. Those are at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Please read them and follow them when posting here. They're written the way they are for good reasons, based on over ten years of running this place.

No one's questioning the importance of major political stories, by the way. Of course they're important—much more important than most of what gets posted here. That's why we need flagging. Otherwise they would take over the site, and HN would be a completely different place.

HN's mandate is to gratify intellectual curiosity. Not all political stories are off topic, but the ones that only stir up outrage, however justifiably, and don't also gratify intellectual curiosity, are not a good fit.

32. c8d3f7+6h[view] [source] 2018-03-13 18:32:15
>>Sone7+(OP)
Maybe it is off topic? But, on the other hand, this unflagged:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16576865

Seems pretty arbitrary to me. That's the internet, I guess.

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48. dang+o61[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-03-14 02:14:35
>>Sone7+rz
I don't doubt that your strong feelings on this topic are sincere and justified. And yes, the word drama is a bit harsh—which I normally avoid. But you really did do some egregious things. You posted 18 fulminating comments in a row, some of which would normally be bannable offenses (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16577259), sent us demanding and even threatening emails, and posted this off-topic meta-thread trying to gin up outrage about moderation, all because of a routine community action that happens every day on HN. That's what I meant by drama. I'm not going to ban you for posting things like "feck off ya mook" today. Everybody goes on tilt sometimes. But getting banned is the expected outcome for behavior like that, so please don't do it again.

You felt this story should be on HN. Other users felt it shouldn't be. That's normal. The flags won over the upvotes, indicating that the bulk of the community doesn't agree with you. I don't see why your preference should matter more than theirs, especially since the mandate of the site (intellectual curiosity yes, political flamewars no) at first blush points rather in their favor than yours.

We're always fine to hear counterarguments, but when the 'counterargument' consists of calling names like despicable, etc., merely because HN is behaving the way it always has, you actually create a persuasive reason not to give you what you want: you're showing what kind of discussion would result from doing so.

If you want to influence what discussion takes place on HN, you need to do two things. First, you need to really grok the mandate of the site and make your case based on that. Otherwise your argument will amount to demanding that HN be a different kind of site than it is, which doesn't hold water. And you also need to really grok the values of the site (civility and substance yes, snark and attack no) and demonstrate how the discussion you want can adhere to them by adhering to them yourself. Otherwise you'll have influence all right, but in the reverse direction.

I understand how strong these feelings can be and why. Torture is wrong. If we were to let that determine HN moderation, though, HN would soon become only about that and things like that, which would kill HN. We work to make sure that doesn't happen, but not because we don't care about more important matters.

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