zlacker

The ceramics teacher announced on opening day that he was dividing the class into two groups. All those on the left side of the studio, he said, would be graded solely on the quantity of work they produced, all those on the right solely on its quality. His procedure was simple: on the final day of class he would bring in his bathroom scales and weigh the work of the "quantity" group: fifty pound of pots rated an "A", forty pounds a "B", and so on. Those being graded on "quality", however, needed to produce only one pot -- albeit a perfect one -- to get an "A". Well, came grading time and a curious fact emerged: the works of highest quality were all produced by the group being graded for quantity. It seems that while the "quantity" group was busily churning out piles of work - and learning from their mistakes -- the "quality" group had sat theorizing about perfection, and in the end had little more to show for their efforts than grandiose theories and a pile of dead clay.

-- From "Art and Fear"

>>ramble+(OP)
See also T.P. Wright's Law governing the rate of process improvement with the volume of production. This focuses on labour input, not quality output, but is on the order of 10-15% with each doubling of output.

Good discussion and references here: http://tikalon.com/blog/blog.php?article=2013/technology_pro...

J. Doyne Farmer discusses this extensively in his work (referenced above).

>>dredmo+Ee
Another example is how patient outcomes improve with the size of the healthcare facility a.k.a patient volumes e.g. http://www.mexicobariatricsurgerycenters.com/analysis-bariat...

>>ramble+(OP)
Still think it's a dumb example because the quantity group could produce 1 pot that's 50 pounds, and it'd be awful, but would get an A.

>>soperj+BI
I think the point was that they didn't do that, even though they could have.

>>soperj+BI
From someone who is reasonably adept with ceramics and just bought another 100 pounds of clay this morning (aka I know how much 50 pounds of clay weighs) because I'm making a six foot tall piece in an intermediate/advanced ceramics class that I'm taking for fun: 50 pounds of clay is actually a lot, and not everyone can make a pot that big. So if someone managed to make one 50 pound pot, it would still require quite a lot of work. Plus, there's the assumption that the majority of the people in the class are interested in learning, so they will be trying to make something good.

>>i000+Co
Interesting. I'm familiar with the concept and have been for decades, though I don't know that I'd previously seen actual data. A sixfold difference in mortality outcomes strikes me as pretty significant. Usually you'd want to see a caseload severity index when comparing data such as these, though I suspect for elective surgery that isn't a major contributing factor.

You're making me want to dig deeper into this area of study. Thanks.

>>d4nte+AK
My mom has potted for over 40 years. We had a kiln and a wheel in our house throughout my childhood. I know a fair bit about it, even though I haven't done that much of it myself. At the end of the day, 50 pounds weights 50 pounds. it'd be hard to lift, but to make a crappy hugely thick base with something resembling a pot on top wouldn't take much effort.

If university taught me anything, it's that most people don't seem to be just interested in learning.

>>smalln+fK
It's not something that actually happened. It's hypothetical.

>>soperj+BI
It's a story about students with some internal desire to be good at pottery, not just to get good grades. The grading system forces them over the hurdle of hesitation, to produce quantity without being paralyzed by anxieties over not being good enough, and then their own desire to improve nonetheless uses that imposed practice productively.

>>Chinju+RQ
It would make more sense if they were just graded on number of pieces, considering it's a story not something that actually happened, they should just correct it.

>>soperj+BI
You clearly know what's wrong with parable, so adjust it accordingly. Give an A to the top 25% of the class when sorted by number of pots made.

>>soperj+BI
Also "learn from mistakes" is taken for granted with quantity here, but it is very far from reality that learning comes inherently from practice. In the example, I would assume a student graded solely by weight couldnt care less about learning. I would create 10 pots reaching the minimum quality possible to be considered a pot and move on without looking back.

Also, it is very reasonable to assume that a student graded by quality would practice a lot and discard (and learn with) the worst pots.

>>ramble+(OP)
Can someone with access to google please search gwern.net please find the page where Gwern shows there's no documentary trace of this actually happening and link it please? I'd find it myself but bing isn't up to the task and Google is blocked in China.

>>soperj+qM
So then why are you worrying about how it could have actually happened.

>>soperj+BI
If someone told you to produce "a huge quantity of ceramics" would you go for huge in size or huge in number of items made?

>>d4nte+AK
>aka I know how much 50 pounds of clay weighs

Does it not weigh 50 pounds??

>>barry-+S91
I tried looking for it with Google and couldn't find it, either on or off his site. I did find an interesting article about the obsolete practice of sanding floors to clean them: https://www.gwern.net/Sand