zlacker

>>uptown+(OP)
That seems way too harsh to me. I have strong opinions on the US War on Drugs and it's failure to meaningful deal with drug use/abuse in the USA. And I feel even worse about how it's spilling out into the rest of the world as we go "global" with everything.

I can't say I know every detail of the case but I don't recall anyone getting killed or even hurt by Mr. Ulbricht so in my mind the punishment does not fit the crime. IMHO the death penalty should be off the table completely (go Nebraska!) and life in prison reserved for only violent offenders. You can argue that he enabled people to harm themselves but I think that's stretching it. If people want to take drugs, even take too much drugs their going to get it somewhere. If drugs were legal and treatment of abuse the focus instead of punishment Silk Road wouldn't have existed in the first place.

>>smhend+v1
In addition to the murder for hire plots, apparently five people died after using drugs purchased on silk road.

>>hristo+Tb
The prosecution didn't make a very good case for the 5 deaths; a lot of missing information and they were using other drugs and had other health issues.

>>gwern+8i
By "other health issues", you are might be referring "Jordan M", who was found cold to the touch with Silk Road open on his computer, a looped belt by his dangling arm, and an open express mail package full of heroin on his desk, who was found at autopsy to have died of intoxication by xanax, heroin, and valium --- all three of which he ordered on SR. The "other health issues" here are the fact that "Jordan M." was, as Ulbricht's lawyer described him in his sentencing memo, an "overweight 27-year old black man".

It's interesting to note that even if one of these overdose victims had health problems that predisposed them to overdose mortality --- something that is pretty far from being established --- there is actually a legal rule that contemplates this circumstance directly: google "the eggshell skull rule". The prosecution memo invokes the rule.

>>tptace+gk
No, I was referring to Jordan M's other health problems which went well beyond 'overweight', to how the Australian teen had multiple drugs in his system, the lack of autopsy and other relevant documents, and to several other issues raised in Ulbricht's lawyer's original filing criticizing the health issues. I would pull it up out of PACER but I don't feel like spending $3+ again to go through the docket and find the full filing again.

tptacek, if you're going to act like an expert on this case, you should read all the documents, not just the indictment and one or two of the shorter things.

>>gwern+451
Jordan M. did in fact receive an autopsy, which confirmed he died of an overdose of drugs of the kind he ordered on Silk Road. The defense attempted to refute the autopsy using their own pathologist, who did not conduct an autopsy. The defense witness was an expert-witness-for-hire who resigned a position as Rockland County medical examiner under a cloud of accusations about incompetence.

Your suggestion that I read more of the documents in this case is rude, uncalled for by anything I said, and unproductive.

It is totally reasonable for you to be skeptical or even cynical of the prosecution's case.

It is not at all reasonable for you to demand that everyone else on this thread share exactly your perspective on the case, or to suggest that people who disagree with you must do so because they're uninformed --- an accusation I would not have considered making about you.

Edit: rereading your comment, just to make sure I wasn't out of line (I don't think I was): you don't need to go to PACER to get the Taff declaration (about all 6 pathology cases). All of these documents are available from a Google search, from DOJ, "FreeRoss", and Cryptome.

>>tptace+Hd1
> The defense witness was an expert-witness-for-hire who resigned a position as Rockland County medical examiner under a cloud of accusations about incompetence.

That would be a good point if it were medical incompetence but the criticisms of Taff were that police did not like his management style and thought personnel arrived at scenes late because they lived outside the county, no? I didn't see anywhere that the prosecution brought this up, even though hearsay is allowed at this point.

> The defense attempted to refute the autopsy using their own pathologist, who did not conduct an autopsy.

He doesn't need to conduct an autopsy to point out problems in how things were done (waiting 4 days to do Wilsdon's autopsy? not doing an autopsy at all on Bridges?) or that the prosecution is straining to associate any death it can with and trying to ignore the long histories of poor health or multiple drug abuse and multiple drug sources.

> Jordan M. did in fact receive an autopsy, which confirmed he died of an overdose of drugs of the kind he ordered on Silk Road.

The Lewis affidavit says that the autopsy confirmed the presence of brain hemorrhage, liver problems (in addition to spleen), and that specifically, "the autopsy report correctly attributed death to multiple/combined drug intoxication. Heroin/opiate, however, was not singled out primary cause of death, and of course, for reasons unknown, the brain hemorrhage was ignored by the authorities conducting the investigation of Mr. Mettee’s death."; in addition, he had other drugs such as diazepam in his system which the prosecution does not claim he bought from SR.

> an accusation I would not have considered making about you.

Nor one I would make about you... about your area of expertise, as opposed to the DNMs.

> All of these documents are available from a Google search, from DOJ, "FreeRoss", and Cryptome.

Not all of them. They are all in RECAP, but that seems to be broken tonight and not allowing downloads of any of the Ulbricht filings.