zlacker

>>uptown+(OP)
Hard drugs are one of those things that have different consequences for different types of people.

An intelligent, wealthy, employable person can dabble with them, have a good time, and usually get away with it. Should they get addicted and screw up their lives, they can usually get help and bounce back without permanent consequences.

People who're a little less well-off intellectually and economically aren't so resilient. Should they get addicted to hard drugs and screw up their lives, they usually don't bounce back from it - their lives are ruined forever.

Since HN is full of intelligent, wealthy, employable people, the comments on this thread don't surprise me a bit. And yes, I agree that drug policy in the United States could stand to be reformed a little. But when evaluating the harm a person's actions can cause to society, I wish people would think a little more about not just themselves, but that vast chunk of society that's not lucky enough to not be as privileged as we are.

>>earlyr+A9
This isn't just about the effects of addictive drugs. I think most people agree they can be devastating to people and families. The trouble is that you seem to be suggesting that US drug policy in any way helps people and families affected by addictive drugs. I can't look at the war on drugs and see any remotely feasible interpretation where it's helping people affected by addictive drugs.

>>tshadd+sd
For me, it doesn't seem like a massive logical leap to suggest that shutting down a particularly convenient and unique part of the supply chain will have an effect on consumption and therefore the negative effects of consumption. Shutting down The Silk Road isn't quite the same thing as arresting the corner dealer.

Aside from that - let's posit that Ross Ulbricht's arrest and punishment and the shutdown of The Silk Road doesn't impact consumption and the consequent negative effects at all. I've still got no real moral qualms about punishing someone who enriches themselves off so much harm to others. Yes, there are many people in this world who do equivalent harm that we don't punish, and that's unfortunate, but that doesn't change the rightness of Ross's punishment one bit.

>>earlyr+Je
> it doesn't seem like a massive logical leap to suggest that shutting down a particularly convenient and unique part of the supply chain will have an effect on consumption and therefore the negative effects of consumption.

It seems quite likely that Silk Road was one of the safest ways to acquire these drugs. It seems likely to me that shutting down Silk Road would have two effects: reducing consumption by casual (non-addicted) recreational users who will not bother with less convenient and safe sources, and driving addicted users to less convenient and safe sources. You might argue that the first effect is slightly beneficial, but I think it is far outweighed by the harmfulness of the second effect.

> I've still got no real moral qualms about punishing someone who enriches themselves off so much harm to others.

This is just another way to rephrase the claim that Silk Road did net harm to others, which we were just debating.

>>baddox+7g
I agree with your overall point, but you're forgetting a third effect: preventing non-current-drug users scared of more conventional venues, but not by Silk Road (which, as you point out, is comparatively convenient and safe), from buying drugs from there (and then possibly developing an addiction). I don't know how large a segment of the population that might be, but addictions have to start somewhere.

>>jeorgu+Eu
The overwhelming majority of opiates that kids begin experimenting with are found from professional chemists, with testing requirements on purity -- and are safely packaged in their parents' or friends' parents' cabinets.

Spending the money on the Silk Road trial on ads talking about how addictive and dangerous stuff from the pharmacy can be -- even more so than stuff on the street -- and that you need to be careful experimenting with medicines would likely do more to keep people safe from opiates than shutting down Silk Road.

(There's a similar argument to be made about stimulants and ADD/ADHD meds.)

Really, the only things that people can find on Silk Road which doesn't have a ready medical analog that's abused by people all the time is marijuana and hallucinogens -- the drugs on the safest end of the spectrum.

If your conjecture is true, and Silk Road gets people out of their pill cabinet on to safer things to experiment with, then it's actually making people safer to let them explore like that.

The problem with these debates is that drug policy involves a complex network of different pieces that are interlinked, and what seems like a straight forward solution to one issue actually ends up backfiring when the effects move through the network.