zlacker

>>mattjh+(OP)
One thing I think is missing is an understanding of why there is such a top-down push for timelines: because saying "we aren't sure when this feature will be delivered" makes sales people look like they don't know what they are talking about. Which.... well.

They would much rather confidently repeat a date that is totally unfounded rubbish which will have to be rolled back later, because then they can blame the engineering team for not delivering to their estimate.

>>bgribb+Ir
If you hired someone to do some work on your house, and they refused to give an estimate, would you be happy?

If you had a deadline - say thanksgiving or something - and you asked “will the work be done by then” and the answer was “I’m not going to tell you” would you hire the person?

The no estimates movement has been incredibly damaging for Software Engineering.

>>iamfli+Kv
If work on a house was specified like a typical software project, no builder would even return your call.

"I'd like to have my roof reshingled, but with glass tiles and it should be in the basement, and once you are half way I'll change my mind on everything and btw, I'm replacing your crew every three days".

>>Rotund+Uy
Sure, for roofing jobs or other large repairs, that’s true. But for remodeling it’s pretty different.

When I’ve engaged with a contractor for remodeling, I usually have some vague idea like “we should do something about this porch and deck and we’d like it to look nice.”

The contractor then talks to you about _requirements_, _options_, and _costs_. They then charges for architectural plans and the option to proceed with a budget and rough timeline.

Then they discover problems (perhaps “legacy construction”) and the scope creeps a bit.

And often the timeline slips by weeks or months for no discernible reason.

Which sounds exactly like a lot of software projects. But half of your house is torn up so you can’t easily cut scope.