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[return to "What Killed Perl?"]
1. orev+kg1[view] [source] 2025-11-19 18:08:42
>>speckx+(OP)
The backwards incompatibility of Perl 6 absolutely killed Perl.

There are many languages still in use today that have all kinds of warts and ugliness, but they remain in use because they still have momentum and lots of legacy things built in them. So being ugly or old isn’t enough of a factor for people to abandon something in droves.

Once you need to rewrite everything, there’s no reason to stay with something you know since you need to fully retool anyway.

As a Perl programmer since v5 was released, the confusion around 6 completely destroyed almost everyone’s enthusiasm, and immediately caused all new projects to avoid Perl. It seemed like 5 had reached the end of the line, and 6 was nowhere to be found. Nobody wants to gamble so many hours of their lives, and the future of their business, on such an uncertain environment.

If Perl 6 had any visible movement within the first few years, it might have survived, but it was a good decade before they even admitted Perl 6 might take longer than expected, and then more time after that before they admitted it should have been a new language. 6 was interesting for language geeks, and they probably did some cool things, but you can’t run a large popular project like it’s a small research project. That completely destroyed all momentum in the community. Perl 5 development only resumed far too late, after the writing was already on the wall.

Both Bill Gates and Linus understand backwards compatibility as a sacrosanct principle. Python only just barely survived the jump from 2 to 3. JavaScript can only survive this because there’s no other option in a browser.

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2. danude+yr1[view] [source] 2025-11-19 18:52:01
>>orev+kg1
There are also a lot of things about Perl that prevented new developers from choosing it when other options were available.

I learned Python from reading a pocket language reference that just described the syntax and standard library, because the language was simple and easy to understand and everything made sense.

Conversely, I was trying to debug a script someone else ran and came across a line that said '$|++'; it was impossible to search for on the web, and when I asked on IRC the only answer I got was 'man perldoc' which also did not answer my question in any reasonable way.

For anyone wondering: `$|` is an alias for `$OUTPUT_AUTOFLUSH`; it defaults to 0 (line-buffered) but any non-zero value means 'flush output immediately'. Thus '$|++' changes 0 to 1 (or 1 to 2, etc), which means that '$|++' means 'turn off output buffering'. No one could be bothered to say that; if you had questions about the language you clearly didn't RTFM well enough so that became the default/only answer I ever saw.

Meanwhile, the PHP community was often welcoming and helpful to newcomers, despite most of them being bad at programming and giving bad advice, and the Python community produced a language that was so often self-explanatory that new user questions were more about how Python did things or asking about how to implement things they didn't realize were in the standard library.

So yeah, lots of things contributed to Perl's decline, but the community being a bunch of elitist toxic dicks sure didn't help matters and it meant that as the set of people looking to learn how to do programming on Linux grew past the neckbeards looking for any metric to show that they were better than other people then Perl's growth potential was finite.

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3. bombca+2l2[view] [source] 2025-11-19 23:44:00
>>danude+yr1
That's an interesting observation - and my recollection is that the perl heyday was just about before the Googlefication of the world; certainly before stacked overflowing.

Grab a snippet of Java or Python and you can google it pretty easily, grab some line noise from perl and you would first need something to translate it into idiomatic text - search engines would search for "OUTPUT_AUTOFLUSH" but would often discard things like "$|++"

I remember learning my use of perl from a red book - probably "Perl 5 by Example" - everything was in books back then, and you read them. Now you learn programming via searches and LLMs, so the languages that win going forward are going to be the ones optimized for that.

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