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[return to "The government ate my name"]
1. pavel_+Yb[view] [source] 2025-10-09 20:10:03
>>notok+(OP)
There's an analogous problem for Russians, and presumably folks from other Slavic-language countries. Our last names are gendered; if Ivan Kuznetsov marries Elena, her last name becomes Kuznetsova. (And their children would have gendered last names, too - little Borya Kuznetsov and little Masha Kuznetsova.)

So Russian families who move to America have a choice - either deal with people and systems who assume that married couples, and parents/children all have the same last name and hit roadblocks when that expectation does not match reality, or change one partner's last name to match the other's.

But that second option has problems too, because that name change doesn't retroactively apply in Russia - so now you might have American documents that say you're a Elena Kuznetsov, but your Russian documents say that you're Elena Kuznetsova - so any legal dealings that involve the two countries (like, say, traveling) become significantly more complicated because you need to prove that the two names actually point to the same person.

At least middle names aren't a big issue - patronymics mean something in Russia, but here in America it's just a string you pop into the "middle name" field, and maybe you get asked what it means, and get to teach someone what patronymic means.

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2. xg15+Jh[view] [source] 2025-10-09 20:40:04
>>pavel_+Yb
This sounds as if it could slowly erode the whole "gendered surname" concept even in the origin countries (e.g. Russia)

If you can treat the gendered name simply as a grammatical construct, things are easy - and a "name" like "Elena Kuznetsov" would simply be a grammatical error and never occur as a real name.

However, now people from abroad visit the country or possibly even (re-)immigrate and suddenly you do have real-live "Elena Kuznetsovs" - in addition to the regular gendered names. This sounds pretty complicated to keep track of.

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3. tlilto+yS1[view] [source] 2025-10-10 13:43:33
>>xg15+Jh
As everyone said already, the gendering isn't something just cultural, it's baked into the grammar. Specially because of grammatical case, different genders have different inflections. In a setting like "Let's call Kuznetsov(a)" accusative case applies, so Kuznezov would become Kuznetsova, Kuznetsova would become Kuznetsovu. Gender-neutral speech is absolutely impossible without overhauling the whole grammar, not just pronouns like in English. And yes, to a unaccustomed Russian ear applying third-person plural "they" to as indefinite-gendered singular sounds weird - and singular neutral "it" is just degrading, as I think it is in English.
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4. dhosek+2ub[view] [source] 2025-10-14 03:11:47
>>tlilto+yS1
Although in at least some cases the gendering isn’t just a simple gender marker: In Czech, for last names which are adjectives, then yes it’s a gender inflection (e.g., Rosický → Rosicka), but for non-adjectival names, the female version is expressed as a possessive, so, e.g., Hošek → Hošková, which to my liberal American ear feels kind of weird.

I would note that in Spanish-speaking countries, it’s generally the case that a woman does not take her husband’s surname, but simply keeps her own. She might add de + her husband’s name to her own after the marriage,¹ but this is less common than women in English-speaking countries retaining their name after marriage.

1. When my ex-wife’s green card was processed after our marriage, the attorney had added “de Hosek” to her name which she didn’t want and had to have the attorney change everything to keep her name as it was.

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