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[return to "UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards"]
1. dijit+N2[view] [source] 2025-09-28 18:23:32
>>DamonH+(OP)
As well as the Estonia eID system works (aside from that time it got hacked[0] and that other time they leaked all the photos[1]) and how well a digital (non-government) system works in Scandinavia… I have to say…

As a Dual British/Swedish Citizen, I really do not trust the UK government. They have proven over and over and over, that at every opportunity presented they will increase their own authority. I don’t believe I have personally witnessed any other advanced economy that so ardently marches towards authoritarianism.

So, no matter if it’s a good idea or not. I can’t in good faith advise the UK having more powers. Unfortunately the UK government themselves can sort of just grant themselves more power. So…

[0]: https://e-estonia.com/card-security-risk/

[1]: https://therecord.media/estonia-says-a-hacker-downloaded-286...

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2. skelet+fj[view] [source] 2025-09-28 20:22:14
>>dijit+N2
Our system in Estonia works well.

I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre.

Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country.

But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and not someone who has the same name and birth date by accident.

I don't see how such a system gives the government more powers. It already has all the data on its citizens, but it is spread out, fragmented, stored with multiple conflicting versions, maybe some of it is stored in databases where no one cares about security, etc.

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3. gslepa+Do[view] [source] 2025-09-28 21:02:10
>>skelet+fj
> I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre.

It depends on the country and its relationship with the people. If the people trust that their government represents the people's interests, there is little push-back. In countries where citizens have reason to believe their government is hijacked by interests that do not have their best interests at heart, then every move is viewed with suspicion.

In this case people are tying Digital ID to CBDCs and social credit systems, which is a reasonable thing to do, given this is exactly how China uses them to enforce 15-minute cities with checkpoints between them. All citizens conversations are tracked, their movements are restricted as well [1], and their ability to purchase goods & services are tightly regulated based on their behavior via the social credit system. This is the world that people who are pushing back against this are trying to avoid.

[1] https://x.com/songpinganq/status/1972382547427590401

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4. tombot+as[view] [source] 2025-09-28 21:27:13
>>gslepa+Do
UK already has a social credit system with our credit score, we even need to pay to see it.
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5. pipes+Kt[view] [source] 2025-09-28 21:36:00
>>tombot+as
That's a financial score based on previous financial transactions and contracts. It's a bit of a stretch to call it social.
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6. asdff+VK[view] [source] 2025-09-29 00:40:07
>>pipes+Kt
Well, in the U.S. at least it literally determines where you are allowed to live. I don't know how you couldn't call it a social credit system.
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7. animal+7O[view] [source] 2025-09-29 01:17:55
>>asdff+VK
It’s not a social credit system because it doesn’t weight your social involvement in the society (political party, school credentials, race) but rather payment history, amount of debt, types of credit
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8. asdff+IP[view] [source] 2025-09-29 01:35:49
>>animal+7O
Simply things that correlate to social involvement I suppose. Quacks like a duck and all.
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9. pkaode+0Q[view] [source] 2025-09-29 01:40:46
>>asdff+IP
What are you on about? It's financial providers deciding whether you are or aren't risky for them to work with, based on your financial decisions.

Not repaying loans and using credit cards to get cash -> you're probably bad with money -> lenders are unlikely to get their money back from you.

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10. Timoro+iR[view] [source] 2025-09-29 01:59:38
>>pkaode+0Q
> based on your financial decisions

A lot of individuals saw their credit scores decline during the Great Recession, even if they weren’t involved in subprime lending.

This myth that credit scores are entirely due to your own financial decisions is up there with myths people believe about names or time zones.

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11. StackR+Jz2[view] [source] 2025-09-29 17:20:42
>>Timoro+iR
I realize that you responded to a specific statement, not necessarily the entire context of the thread. However:

Saying that a person’s credit score is entirely due to their own financial decisions is incorrect because it’s overly simplistic, that’s true, although the main factor is that person’s behavior (whether that behavior is their fault or not is a different story). It can also depend on circumstances specific to the person but not directly related to their own actions (e.g. their credit provider revises credit limits across the board due to external factors, so their credit utilization changes too, without them having used any more or less of it).

In addition, and what you’re alluding to, is that these models are continuously revised. A set of behaviors and circumstances that lead to a higher score in one economic environment may not do the same in another.

Credit scores as implemented in for instance the US are not a direct reflection of a person’s moral character or intended as a reward for good behavior. They’re uncaring algorithms optimized solely for determining how risky it is to lend you money, so that financial institutions can more accurately spread that risk across their customers and maximize their profits. This also enables credit providers to give out more credit overall, based on less biased criteria (not unbiased, because models are never perfect and financial circumstances can be proxies for other attributes).

One can feel however one wants about whether this system is good or not. But it’s definitely different in kind to ”social credit” systems like the one China has implemented, which directly takes into account far more non-financial factors and determines far more non-financial outcomes, effectively exerting much more control over many facets of people’s lives.

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