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1. Glypto+mV[view] [source] 2025-09-10 23:47:19
>>david9+(OP)
I'm mildly curious what the reaction to this will be compared to the reaction to other recent political murders, like the Hortmans, or of Thompson.

That said, I think people need to recognize that in many aspects what's happening is connected to societal issues that gun control and gun regulations will have very little impact on - remember, even in Japan somebody could make some kind of battery ignited home-made shotgun and kill Shinzo Abe.

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2. paulry+AZ[view] [source] 2025-09-11 00:19:05
>>Glypto+mV
> remember, even in Japan somebody could make some kind of battery ignited home-made shotgun and kill Shinzo Abe.

Countries with strict gun control enjoy far lower rates of firearm accidents, suicides, and murders. IMO it's clearly worth the tradeoff. Very few of us live in a place where only guns can solve our problems.

The fact that occasionally someone goes to great lengths to kill doesn't mean we should make it easier for everyone.

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3. codere+Ip1[view] [source] 2025-09-11 03:59:13
>>paulry+AZ
And when those countries run into issues because the government is incompetent, people start wishing they had guns again. It's all well and good to give up guns when the system works, but when it doesn't, you lose self determination.

Japan is, famously, a country where the system generally works. Hell, a late train would get you a letter for your boss. It's a bit different in places where the police don't have the resources, or dangerous individuals aren't removed from the public.

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4. paulry+z04[view] [source] 2025-09-12 00:52:08
>>codere+Ip1
Is it guns that keep governments honest and responsive to the populace? Or is it a culture of trust, honesty, and non-violence?

Yemen is in second place for guns per person. How responsive is their government to the people?

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5. codere+IF6[view] [source] 2025-09-12 23:21:20
>>paulry+z04
My post wasn't about keeping the government honest, it was about the individual's right to protect themselves from anyone, including the government. Guns empower the individual to defend themselves without having to rely on the effective intervention of government, because they're an equalizer. This matters when the government loses effectiveness, either because resources are stretched thin (so, ineffective policing) or because incompetence or ideology creeps in (the judiciary does a poor job of removing dangerous individuals from the public). In places with effective governance, guns aren't really necessary, and it's tempting to trade them in for a small gain in security. The issue is that governments change over time, and effective systems can become ineffective. When that happens, people suddenly find themselves wanting guns again.

The debate over guns actually hinges on the extent to which the individual should be empowered to defend themselves, and historically, it hasn't just been about guns, but about all weapons, and even martial arts (which have also been banned at various points in history). Governments don't like to empower the individual, because they want to maintain a monopoly over violence (for many practical reasons), and because empowering individuals often creates its own set of trust problems (which is true for anything -- how many drivers are trustworthy, for example). Defenseless individuals are easier to govern from an administrative perspective, and if a government is good at protecting the populace from threats, it works. In fact, it can be better for the population as a whole, at least while the government is competent. But life is messy, and there are points where individuals need to defend themselves. As systems break down, not only does the need increase, but also the effectiveness of the means, because the threats you have to defend yourself against by definition don't play by the rules.

This, imo, is the real point of the second amendment. The Bill of Rights is essentially a declaration that certain rights are derived from a higher authority than government, which is why they are inalienable. No one needs permission to defend themselves, and it's my belief that the right to bear arms was put in there to ensure that should the system fail or become ineffective, the people would still be able to exercise one of their most fundamental natural rights. It certainly wasn't an accident, because it was the second thing that they added. The verbiage around government and militias makes sense in the context of having just fought a war of independence, but it also makes sense when you consider that it's often well-meaning governments that take this right away.

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