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1. ipytho+BD[view] [source] 2025-09-10 22:07:09
>>david9+(OP)
I was just at a conference today where one of the presenters referenced the "Trust barometer": https://www.edelman.com/trust/2025/trust-barometer

According to that study, 23% approved of the statement "I approve hostile activism to drive change by threatening or committing violence". It's even higher if you only focus on 18-34 year olds.

Full report here: https://www.edelman.com/sites/g/files/aatuss191/files/2025-0...

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2. mothba+DE[view] [source] 2025-09-10 22:12:39
>>ipytho+BD
Is it possible that violence is just more rational for today's 18-34 y/o than it was at some other points in recent history?
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3. Lerc+kI[view] [source] 2025-09-10 22:31:04
>>mothba+DE
The argument against using violence to achieve you ends is that if everyone does it, it is bad for everyone. If those who do it do not face repercussions then they will gain undue advantage, motivating everyone to match their actions, which again, is bad for everyone. The solution is the social contract and the rule of law. If enough people agree that anyone taking that path should face repercussions sufficient to not grant a net advantage, then enforcement of the law prevents others from taking the path of violence to reach parity with the violent

When the rule of law is eroded, which it has been, in the US and worldwide. Then it does indeed become more rational to use violence to restore the rule of law. Unfortunately it also increases the motivation towards violence for personal gain, that makes the task of restoring the rule of law all that more difficult. Countries have spent years trying to recover that stability once it is lost.

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4. tossan+zK[view] [source] 2025-09-10 22:42:09
>>Lerc+kI
Rule of law in itself is not a worthwhile institution - and is not enough to keep violence at distance.

You need protection, non corruption and a level of equality to be protected by that rule of law.

I think that is what mostly has been eroded - also the poorest 10% need a reason to believe in rule of law.

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5. noduer+c61[view] [source] 2025-09-11 01:06:35
>>tossan+zK
You make a good point. For example, the rule of law in North Korea or Equatorial Guinea is whatever the HMFIC says it is. And that's written in law, the police and courts enforce it, all proper and aboveboard in a legalistic sense. Just not in common sense.

As far as the poorest 10%, though: There is always a poorest 10%. And a poorest 50%. If you're in the middle class or higher, you have every reason to prevent the poor from revolting and taking what you have. This can be accomplished by a vast array of carrots and sticks. Some countries lean more toward the carrot - we call them liberal democracies. Autocratic states use the stick.

But although greater wealth inequality may be a good indicator of the tendency of the lowest 10% to become lawless, it is not a good indicator of which method is used to keep them in check. Cuba has pretty amazingly low levels of wealth inequality - essentially everyone's poor. Keeping them from rebelling, however, is all stick, precisely because any kind of economic carrot would undermine the philosophy that it's better for everyone to be poor than to have wealth inequality.

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6. YZF+wa1[view] [source] 2025-09-11 01:45:40
>>noduer+c61
Very good points.

For the most part, the bottom 10% in most liberal democracies are much better off than most people in most autocratic states.

Wealth inequality isn't great but the existence of wealthy people in successful countries helps fund service for the entire population. Yet I saw a poster the other day titled "class warfare" with a picture of graveyard saying that's where the "rich" will be buried. People don't understand at all how counties and economies work and how this system we live in works vs. the alternatives (I'm in Canada btw).

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7. tossan+uG1[view] [source] 2025-09-11 07:03:51
>>YZF+wa1
As sibling commentors say, this is just not true.

As a society we have a capacity to work, and we divide that work using money.

Your observation thst rich people pay for services is indicative of an oligarchy. When rich people pay, then it is not a plethora or small businesses, a democratic chooses government, or a consortium of investors bundling together to do something great.

You are literally pointing out the failure of the west.

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8. YZF+W74[view] [source] 2025-09-12 02:26:37
>>tossan+uG1
I don't think so. This is the success of the west. It's the least worse of all the other alternatives. Which other option has worked out better for everyone?

Oligarchy would be the rich controlling the countries in the west. Other than in people's imagination and conspiracies there is no evidence of that actually happening. Was Trump the favorite candidate of the rich in the US? I very much doubt it. Do the rich gain more influence with their money - sure. But not more influence then the rest of the population. The 99.9% have more influence than the 0.1% in aggregate.

The west is the only place on this planet where the corrupt rich do not have absolute control (see Putin). Is it perfect, no? Is it better than those failed attempts to make everyone equal, strong yes.

The top 0.1%, 1%, 10% are still a lot of people. This includes many successful small businesses, it includes large businesses, it includes many. Those people have varied opinions on how countries should be run, just like all of us. But they also have a vested interest in having a safe and free and well functioning society.

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