zlacker

>>ustad+(OP)
I've been using Go more or less in every full-time job I've had since pre-1.0. It's simple for people on the team to pick up the basics, it generally chugs along (I'm rarely worried about updating to latest version of Go), it has most useful things built in, it compiles fast. Concurrency is tricky but if you spend some time with it, it's nice to express data flow in Go. The type system is most of the time very convenient, if sometimes a bit verbose. Just all-around a trusty tool in the belt.

But I can't help but agree with a lot of points in this article. Go was designed by some old-school folks that maybe stuck a bit too hard to their principles, losing sight of the practical conveniences. That said, it's a _feeling_ I have, and maybe Go would be much worse if it had solved all these quirks. To be fair, I see more leniency in fixing quirks in the last few years, like at some point I didn't think we'd ever see generics, or custom iterators, etc.

The points about RAM and portability seem mostly like personal grievances though. If it was better, that would be nice, of course. But the GC in Go is very unlikely to cause issues in most programs even at very large scale, and it's not that hard to debug. And Go runs on most platforms anyone could ever wish to ship their software on.

But yeah the whole error / nil situation still bothers me. I find myself wishing for Result[Ok, Err] and Optional[T] quite often.

>>blixt+ac
Go was designed by some old-school folks that maybe stuck a bit too hard to their principles, losing sight of the practical conveniences.

I'd say that it's entirely the other way around: they stuck to the practical convenience of solving the problem that they had in front of them, quickly, instead of analyzing the problem from the first principles, and solving the problem correctly (or using a solution that was Not Invented Here).

Go's filesystem API is the perfect example. You need to open files? Great, we'll create

  func Open(name string) (*File, error)

function, you can open files now, done. What if the file name is not valid UTF-8, though? Who cares, hasn't happen to me in the first 5 years I used Go.

>>xyzzyz+6f
Note that Go strings can be invalid UTF-8, they dropped panicking on encountering an invalid UTF string before 1.0 I think

>>nasret+Uf
This also epitomizes the issue. What's the point of having `string` type at all, if it doesn't allow you to make any extra assumptions about the contents beyond `[]byte`? The answer is that they planned to make conversion to `string` error out when it's invalid UTF-8, and then assume that `string`s are valid UTF-8, but then it caused problems elsewhere, so they dropped it for immediate practical convenience.

>>xyzzyz+jg
Rust apparently got relatively close to not having &str as a primitive type and instead only providing a library alias to &[u8] when Rust 1.0 shipped.

Score another for Rust's Safety Culture. It would be convenient to just have &str as an alias for &[u8] but if that mistake had been allowed all the safety checking that Rust now does centrally has to be owned by every single user forever. Instead of a few dozen checks overseen by experts there'd be myriad sprinkled across every project and always ready to bite you.

>>tialar+Ov
Even so you end up with paper cuts like len which returns the number of bytes.

>>inferi+bf1
The problem with string length is there's probably at least four concepts that could conceivably be called length, and few people are happy when none of them are len.

Of the top of my head, in order of likely difficulty to calculate: byte length, number of code points, number of grapheme/characters, height/width to display.

Maybe it would be best for Str not to have len at all. It could have bytes, code_points, graphemes. And every use would be precise.

>>toast0+7l1
> The problem with string length is there's probably at least four concepts that could conceivably be called length.

The answer here isn't to throw up your hands, pick one, and other cases be damned. It's to expose them all and let the engineer choose. To not beat the dead horse of Rust, I'll point that Ruby gets this right too.

    * String#length                   # count Unicode code units
    * String#bytes#length             # count bytes
    * String#grapheme_clusters#length # count grapheme clusters

Similarly, each of those "views" lets you slice, index, etc. across those concepts naturally. Golang's string is the worst of them all. They're nominally UTF-8, but nothing actually enforces it. But really they're just buckets of bytes, unless you send them to APIs that silently require them to be UTF-8 and drop them on the floor or misbehave if they're not.

Height/width to display is font-dependent, so can't just be on a "string" but needs an object with additional context.