zlacker

>>amarch+(OP)
Is there a public conversation in European countries about the value of liberty? I don't mean arguments about how liberty can lead to more economic prosperity, I mean how liberty is valuable on its own terms.

Without this value, the state can continue to erect legislation in the name of "safety", or any other perceived inequity in society, until you can no longer move.

How perverse that English law used to be a bastion of civil liberty protections. Here's a great scene from A Man For All Seasons that shows what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBiLT3LASk

>>liampu+ml3
In the EU we have different liberties to the US. That doesn't necessarily make Europeans less free. For example, wlthe EU has free movement of goods, capital, services, and people across borders. None of which are present in the USA. Does that make Americans less free than Europeans? Some would argue so, but I don't see it.

The UK however, maybe. Brexit was a real dumb idea.

>>Stevvo+om3
> free movement of goods, capital, services, and people across borders

What in the world are you talking about? The US has all of this internally. If on the one narrow point you want to claim that EU has open-borders to the rest of the world, no you don't and that's not something that's good to have anyways. Both US and European citizens are fighting their own governments to decrease immigration as polling shows large opposition to current immigration levels for many years now. A big part of the crackdown on speech in the UK is to restrict criticism of immigration policy.

>>PKop+zq3
The European Union has, in practice, lacked genuine free movement of people across internal borders for some time (I went through complete and very aggressive border control entering France via airplane three years ago). Schengen arrangements have been curtailed in Germany[^1]. Part of the challenge is that Europeans appear out of touch with rapidly changing realities (I say this as a European). Additionally, some argue that the European Parliament is operating under an unofficial coup[^2].

The rearmament initiative is particularly concerning. Over the past three years, communities in Italy, Spain, Greece, and Germany have been devastated by flooding, wildfires, etc. Rather than prioritizing investment in resilient infrastructure, leaders are channeling resources into rearmament to confront Russia and China (or so they say - since they are acting as clowns anyway no one really pays attention). My concern is that these weapons may ultimately be used by Europeans against one another; It happened twice already.

[^1]: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/temporary-border-controls-to...

[^2]: https://www.politico.eu/article/ursula-von-der-leyen-europe-...

>>atmosx+Sy3
Italy is spending the 5% target on building a bridge to Sicily. They should have done that years ago, it would have transformed the Island's economy and dealt a large blow to the Mafia. Hope other countries can find ways to spend the 5% on critical infrastructure.