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[return to "Graphene OS: a security-enhanced Android build"]
1. throwa+Ou[view] [source] 2025-07-25 01:55:04
>>madars+(OP)
The main missing feature is password under duress that would open a different “user”. So even if you’re forced to give away your password they won’t get to the real account (some hidden profile or similar).

At least hidden profiles would be good enough for basic protection.

They have this which wipes your device, but you can get killed under duress. https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/14722-using-duress-password...

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2. mbanan+Zv[view] [source] 2025-07-25 02:04:29
>>throwa+Ou
GrapheneOS community manager here. The problem with something like this is that it cannot be reasonably hidden when it would be exposed by someone using basic tools. Our Duress PIN/Password feature doesn't make any attempts to mask itself, precisely because we think doing that only gives people a false sense of security.

We think there's a good chance a motivated adversary is going to be familiar with GrapheneOS and its features, and the more mainstream it becomes, the more this can mean "your abusive significant other" rather than someone at the border.

The moment people know this feature exists, it can become dangerous even if you don't use it. You can be threatened to unlock, and even if you do, the adversary can choose to not believe you since they can think you're just hiding it. That puts you in a dangerous situation where they think you can provide something that's literally not there.

It's a very difficult problem to solve, and we don't think that proposal can solve it.

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3. YoumuC+lA[view] [source] 2025-07-25 02:36:39
>>mbanan+Zv
I hate to say this but I don't foresee Graphene being "mainstream". Most users will stick to the stock ROM. The most "mainstream" custom ROM Lineage is only installed on 0.04% of Android devices as of 2023 [1]. Even if Graphene appears in some mainstream news, I highly doubt any ordinary person can recognize it when they see one.

If the threat model is hiding from random people, I think a hidden profile works very well.

Now let's talk about motivated adversary as you put it. Hidden profile and wiping are not either-or, they can coexist. If one is really targeted by a motivated adversary, it should be apparent in most cases, and the targeted person can choose to enter the wiping PIN instead of the secondary profile PIN.

Now if one is targeted by a really motivated and threatening adversary, I don't think wiping PIN is any better than secondary profile PIN. The moment one chooses to wipe the phone, the adversary could be triggered by the action and harm the victim anyway.

[1] https://9to5google.com/2023/11/20/lineageos-number-of-device...

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4. mbanan+WB[view] [source] 2025-07-25 02:49:51
>>YoumuC+lA
GrapheneOS isn't a project that plans to be an aftermarket OS forever. In fact, we're currently working with an OEM to have their devices have official GrapheneOS support. This can mean devices being sold with GrapheneOS without someone even having to install it.

We're of the opinion that there's a growing portion of the population that is becoming more security and privacy conscious, and that's reflected in our userbase, which has been growing consistently over the last few years.

We're not saying we're going to have iPhone's marketshare, but we're constantly growing.

>Now if one is targeted by a really motivated and threatening adversary, I don't think wiping PIN is any better than secondary profile PIN. The moment one chooses to wipe the phone, the adversary could be triggered by the action and harm the victim anyway.

Yes, but at that point, the data is irreversibly rendered inaccessible. There are situations where the data itself is the most important factor, and where the owner of the device being hurt doesn't benefit the adversary now that the data is gone. Of course, as with everything, it depends on one's situation, but the duress PIN feature doesn't involve trickery. It's a way to reliably and quickly do a very specific thing.

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5. crossr+aH[view] [source] 2025-07-25 03:40:18
>>mbanan+WB
> In fact, we're currently working with an OEM to have their devices have official GrapheneOS support

Oh god, yes. Please! I can't wait to leave the walled fruit garden, but can't tolerate Google sniffing everything I do or do not do on my phone either.

PS. I just hope it's an OEM that sells devices to a lot of countries including developing ones and not something like Fairphone.

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6. ThePow+e91[view] [source] 2025-07-25 08:56:48
>>crossr+aH
Google has no access to anything you do on a Pixel with GrapheneOS installed just because it's their hardware.
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7. Commen+UA1[view] [source] 2025-07-25 13:18:12
>>ThePow+e91
Explain this please. With enough detail for the HN gurus.
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