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[return to "Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology"]
1. ChuckM+dp[view] [source] 2025-07-03 20:36:39
>>doomro+(OP)
This is great. It really pissed me off when David Chaum locked all the cool uses of ZKPs behind a patent wall. The DigiCash folks were peak dot com greed types, their business model was "We're going to get big chunk of change out of every transaction ever so we should be valued at 1% of the worlds GDP!" And the world responded with "Yeah, no."

I really like Andy Birrells "micro-cents" which exploited the fact you could not easily reverse an MD5 hash so you one could cheaply do high confidence low value transactions at speed. Another idea that never got anywhere sadly.

ZKP ID cards and ZKP currency are both interesting things from the 90's I'd love to see in real life. Imagine I could pay you phone to phone with no network level of capability using a currency that couldn't be double spent. That was the promise of digicash. The government hated it :-). It was just like cash currency in that serial numbers could let you track the bank it left, and the bank it came back in to, but you couldn't track anywhere it had been between those two points.

Fun times. I'll have to see if some of my ZKP ideas can be built on top of this tech now.

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2. derang+4T3[view] [source] 2025-07-05 12:29:20
>>ChuckM+dp
Offline transfers don’t work without risk of double spending. The transactions eventually have to be finalized with a mint. The most one could hope for in the DigiCash model is the detection of a double spend once the cheated parties go back online[1].

If only the recipient doesn’t have access, a certain amount of trust can be delegated to the strength of the proof presented in the spend. In an ecash model, the proof would be in the form of a signature made by the mint (assuming the recipient was able to get the public keys the mint was using).

Active research is being done on the ecash model with the resurgence of the concept in the Cashu and Fedimint projects. Cashu takes the online sender, offline receiver approach[2].

[1] https://chaum.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Untraceable_Ele...

^See paragraph in the introduction ending with:

“But if Alice reuses a coin, the bank can trace it to her account and can prove that she has used it twice.”

[2] https://x.com/CashuBTC/status/1901240537866273252

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