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[return to "IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites"]
1. alluro+Gk[view] [source] 2025-06-28 12:24:26
>>ahmetc+(OP)
I visited Israel for a sports seminar some ~10 years ago and met many nice people. I felt sympathetic to their reality of living in an ever-hostile environment from all sides, and struggle to keep their place in the world safe. I admired their resilience and strength.

When this Gaza conflict started, I saw how the Israeli protested against their government and demanded peace, so I thought there is a semblance of an excuse for glimpses of abhorrence being reported - "it's a small number of people in power, not the Israeli nation doing it, and also there are always 2 sides to the story".

Since then, there have been unfathomable horrors and crimes against humanity done from the Israel side, with extreme intensity and one-sidedness, and it's now been going for so long. I can find no excuse of any kind anymore, for what has been and is being done in Gaza. I don't think any normal person could. The weight of these things, in my mind at least, is such that if the Israeli people really wanted anything different, it was their human duty and utmost responsibility to stop this by now, in whatever way needed. They didn't... It's sad that people who have suffered so much as well, let themselves become the villains to this depth and extent.

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2. n1b0m+pD[view] [source] 2025-06-28 15:23:41
>>alluro+Gk
From the start of Israel’s assault on Gaza, the vast majority of Israelis haven’t shown any concern about the suffering in Gaza. Those who campaign for an end to the war do so purely as a means to secure the release of the hostages.
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3. Friday+nx1[view] [source] 2025-06-28 22:47:50
>>n1b0m+pD
That's not surprising. They remember the scenes of ecstatic celebration on the streets of Gaza and the West Bank on october 7. And the fact is that the people of Gaza could end the conflict whenever they want. All they need to do is surrender and hand over the hostages. You might think i'm oversimplifying but actually that's really it.
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4. bglaze+5H2[view] [source] 2025-06-29 14:03:03
>>Friday+nx1
I keep hearing the “the killing would end if Hamas would just release the hostages”. But the Israelis keep offering ceasefire terms that include full release of hostages but no permanent cessation of hostilities, only 60 days and not even temporary full withdrawal from Gaza.

Why do you think the Israelis want to keep their tanks in Gaza even after all the hostages come back? Why won’t they offer a full and permanent ceasefire? I think this hostage justification is just Israelis buying time so they can keep on doing what they actually always wanted, full ethnic cleansing of Gaza.

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5. Friday+XK2[view] [source] 2025-06-29 14:34:48
>>bglaze+5H2
Nonsense. Anything less then a full military occupation of gaza for the medium term at least would be unacceptable. This is so blindingly obvious that it doesn't even need to be explained. Anyway it would benefit the gazans far more then a war every 5 years.

If they wanted to ethnically cleanse gaza they would have done so long before October 7. You don't seem to understand the reality of war and the consequences of being on the losing side. Nor of the constraints Israel would be forced to work with if they had total control of Gaza.

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6. bglaze+HN2[view] [source] 2025-06-29 14:56:17
>>Friday+XK2
You didn’t answer the question. Why won’t Israel commit to a permanent ceasefire if “the war ends when the hostages are released”? Why do they insist on being able to start the war again in 60 days if the hostages are all they want?
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7. Friday+DU2[view] [source] 2025-06-29 15:57:26
>>bglaze+HN2
The hostages aren't all they want. from wikipedia:

>Israel's campaign has four stated goals: to destroy Hamas, to free the hostages, to ensure Gaza no longer poses a threat to Israel, and to return displaced residents of Northern Israel.

Pretty clear and i never suggested otherwise. I'm not sure where you got that idea from

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8. bglaze+513[view] [source] 2025-06-29 16:52:21
>>Friday+DU2
Please, I really don’t think you’re discussing this in good faith.

“And the fact is that the people of Gaza could end the conflict whenever they want. All they need to do is surrender and hand over the hostages”

So no, Israel decides how and when the killing ends and apparently that’s when “Gaza no longer poses a threat”. Who knows what that means but apparently it involves mass starvation, firing tank rounds into crowds, and destroying every hospital.

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9. Friday+443[view] [source] 2025-06-29 17:15:07
>>bglaze+513
I can't comment on specific actions, but it would definitely mean the destruction of hamas and islamic jihad as well as systematically removing all weapons from the gaza strip and the destruction of all tunnels and terror infrastructure. If they surrender the process can happen without loss of life (even the death of all militants can be avoided with a negotiated surrender)

Gaza was a pretty enormous threat, so neutralising it takes an enormous amount of effort. If you cared about the death and destruction of gaza you would be calling for the end of Hamas. It's not like Israel wants to be stuck in an endless conflict in Gaza i think it has shown many times in the recent past that it is prefers peace to war.

The word surrender is carrying quite a lot of meaning but it's still good faith on my part.

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