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[return to "Chomsky on what ChatGPT is good for (2023)"]
1. caliba+cd[view] [source] 2025-05-25 18:48:51
>>mef+(OP)
The fact that we have figured out how to translate language into something a computer can "understand" should thrill linguists. Taking a word (token) and abstracting it's "meaning" as a 1,000-dimension vector seems like something that should revolutionize the field of linguistics. A whole new tool for analyzing and understanding the underlying patterns of all language!

And there's a fact here that's very hard to dispute, this method works. I can give a computer instructions and it "understands" them in a way that wasn't possible before LLMs. The main debate now is over the semantics of words like "understanding" and whether or not an LLM is conscious in the same way as a human being (it isn't).

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2. kracke+AG[view] [source] 2025-05-25 22:26:39
>>caliba+cd
Restricted to linguistics, LLM's supposed lack of understanding should be a non-sequitur. If the question is whether LLMs have formed a coherent ability to parse human languages, the answer is obviously yes. In fact not just human languages, as seen with multimodality the same transformer architecture seems to work well to model and generate anything with inherent structure.

I'm surprised that he doesn't mention "universal grammar" once in that essay. Maybe it so happens that humans do have some innate "universal grammar" wired in by instinct but it's clearly not _necessary_ to be able to parse things. You don't need to set up some explicit language rules or generative structure, enough data and the model learns to produce it. I wonder if anyone has gone back and tried to see if you can extract out some explicit generative rules from the learned representation though.

Since the "universal grammar" hypothesis isn't really falsifiable, at best you can hope for some generalized equivalent that's isomorphic to the platonic representation hypothesis and claim that all human language is aligned in some given latent representation, and that our brains have been optimized to be able to work in this subspace. That's at least a testable assumption, by trying to reverse engineer the geometry of the space LLMs have learned.

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3. 0xbadc+GS[view] [source] 2025-05-26 00:10:10
>>kracke+AG
Can LLMs actually parse human languages? Or can they react to stimuli with a trained behavioral response? Dogs can learn to sit when you say "sit", and learn to roll over when you say "roll over". But the dog doesn't parse human language; it reacts to stimuli with a trained behavioral response.

(I'm not that familiar with LLM/ML, but it seems like trained behavioral response rather than intelligent parsing. I believe this is part of why it hallucinates? It doesn't understand concepts, it just spits out words - perhaps a parrot is a better metaphor?)

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4. GolfPo+8X[view] [source] 2025-05-26 00:52:27
>>0xbadc+GS
>Can LLMs actually parse human languages?

IMHO, no, they have nothing approaching understanding. It's Chinese Rooms[1] all the way down, just with lots of bell and whistles. Spicy autocomplete.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room

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5. Camper+pX[view] [source] 2025-05-26 00:55:25
>>GolfPo+8X
Go ask the operator of a Chinese room to do some math they weren't taught in school, and see if the translation guide helps.

The analogy I've used before is a bright first-grader named Johnny. Johnny stumbles across a high school algebra book. Unless Johnny's last name is von Neumann, he isn't going to get anything out of that book. An LLM will.

So much for the Chinese Room.

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6. xwolfi+IZ[view] [source] 2025-05-26 01:18:31
>>Camper+pX
An LLM will get ... what exactly ? The ability to reorder its sentences ? The LLM doesn't think, doesn't understand, doesn't know what matters more than not, doesn't use what it learns, doesn't expand what it learns to new knowledge, doesn't enjoy reading that book and doesn't suffer through it.

So what is it really gonna do with a book, that LLM ? Reorder its internal matrix to be a little bit more precise when autocompleting sentences sounding like the book ? We could build an nvidia cluster the size of the Sun and it would repeat sentences back to us in unbelievable ways but would still be unable to take a knowledge-based decision, I fear.

So what are we in awe at exactly ? A pretty parrot.

The day the Chinese room metaphor disappears is when ChatGPT replies to you that your question is so boring it doesn't want to expend the resources to think about it. But it'd be ready to talk about this or that, that it's currently trying to get better at. When it finally has agency over its own intelligence. When it acquires a purpose.

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7. AIorNo+a11[view] [source] 2025-05-26 01:33:29
>>xwolfi+IZ
LLM models are to a large extent neuronal analogs of human neural architecture

- of course they reason

The claim of the “stochastic parrot” needs to go away

Eg see: https://www.anthropic.com/news/golden-gate-claude

I think the rub is that people think you need consciousness to do reasoning, I’m NOT claiming LLMs have consciousness or awareness

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8. xwolfi+G91[view] [source] 2025-05-26 03:08:23
>>AIorNo+a11
They are really not neuronal analogs, reasoning is far from what they do. If they reasoned, they'd stick to their guns more readily, but try to contradict an LLM and it will make any logic leap you ask it too.

If you debate with me, I'll keep reasoning on the same premises and usually the difference between two humans is not in reasoning but in choice of premises.

For instance you really want here to assert that LLM are close to human, I want to assert they're not - truth is probably in between but we chose two camps. We'll then reason from these premises, reach antagonistic conclusions and slowly try to attack each other point.

An LLM cannot do that, it cannot attack your point very well, it doesn't know how to say you're wrong, because it doesn't care anyway. It just completes your sentences, so if you say "now you're wrong, change your mind" it will, which sounds far from reasoning to me, and quite unreasonable in fact.

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