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[return to "What if we made advertising illegal?"]
1. gcp123+Cj[view] [source] 2025-04-05 20:15:16
>>smnrg+(OP)
I can’t stop thinking about this article. I spent a long time in ad tech before switching to broader systems engineering. The author captures something I've struggled to articulate to friends and family about why I left the industry.

The part that really struck me was framing advertising and propaganda as essentially the same mechanism - just with different masters. Having built targeting systems myself, this rings painfully true. The mechanical difference between getting someone to buy sneakers versus vote for a candidate is surprisingly small.

What's frustrating is how the tech community keeps treating the symptoms while ignoring the disease. We debate content moderation policies and algorithmic transparency, but rarely question the underlying attention marketplace that makes manipulation profitable in the first place.

The uncomfortable truth: most of us in tech understand that today's advertising systems are fundamentally parasitic. We've built something that converts human attention into money with increasingly terrifying efficiency, but we're all trapped in a prisoner's dilemma where nobody can unilaterally disarm.

Try this thought experiment from the article - imagine a world without advertising. Products would still exist. Commerce would still happen. Information would still flow. We'd just be freed from the increasingly sophisticated machinery designed to override our decision-making.

Is this proposal radical? Absolutely. But sometimes the Overton window needs a sledgehammer.

P.S. If you are curious about the relationship between Sigmund Freud, propaganda, and the origins of the ad industry, check out the documentary “Century of the Self”.

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2. Ferret+lt[view] [source] 2025-04-05 21:49:58
>>gcp123+Cj
> imagine a world without advertising

I can't because a world with magic and world peace is more realistic and believable.

It's impossible. How do you even define advertising? If you define it conservatively, then advertising will skirt through the loopholes. If you define it liberally, then you have an unfair, authoritarian system that will definitely be selectively enforced against political enemies.

And in all cases, you are self-imposing a restriction that will give other nations an economic advantage and jeopardizing long-term sovereignty.

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3. jonono+7v[view] [source] 2025-04-05 22:05:39
>>Ferret+lt
One would never reach zero. And it would be challenging both to define and police laws against advertising. But to get to a world with drastically less advertisements than today seems doable.
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4. scarfa+5w[view] [source] 2025-04-05 22:16:23
>>jonono+7v
So we want the government to decide what is advertising and propaganda? Is telling people about the wrongs of government propaganda? Is going door to door about have you made Jesus the head of your life propaganda?
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5. jychan+Ww[view] [source] 2025-04-05 22:24:03
>>scarfa+5w
Yeah? The government defines what is murder, defines what is tax evasion, and defines tons of other stuff already? Some states already have laws against billboards?
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6. scarfa+az[view] [source] 2025-04-05 22:48:54
>>jychan+Ww
How would you like the government deciding some cause they didn’t agree with is advertising?

If you live in a conservative state, what are the chances that they say advocacy for Planned Parenthood is advertising and say that advocacy for pro-life is freedom of religion?

And how would that work over the Internet? Are you going to block foreign websites?

I can give you a real world example. Florida requires age verification for porn sites. Sites not based in the US including the ones owned by MindGeek just ignored it.

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7. ameliu+sB[view] [source] 2025-04-05 23:15:30
>>scarfa+az
We can start by banning ads for products and services that cost money.

> And how would that work over the Internet? Are you going to block foreign websites?

We just address the big platforms. No need to be exhaustive in the first attempt.

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8. JustEx+kD[view] [source] 2025-04-05 23:32:03
>>ameliu+sB
So you put American companies at a disadvantage and that means companies could just advertise on foreign websites. Are you going to block those websites? Again we see it happening today, the American porn websites are losing money to foreign websites owned by MindGeek.

Why wouldn’t the same happen to more mainstream sites.

Do we also ban Netflix and other streaming services from having an ad tier? Do we make all search engines and other content providers for pay?

How do broadcast companies make money without advertising? Do we want the government funding and controlling content?

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9. jychan+JX[view] [source] 2025-04-06 04:32:50
>>JustEx+kD
American websites implement GDPR even though that's an EU law. Websites that are used across geopolitical boundaries will invariably follow US law. There will certainly be a few exceptions, but if the law is written like the GDPR, then they'd be illegally violating the law.

And services like Netflix losing an ad supported tier is just like... Netflix in 2021. I fail to see that as alarming.

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10. scarfa+C11[view] [source] 2025-04-06 05:43:43
>>jychan+JX
And how does broadcast Tv work in your no ad supported TV world? Would everyone have to pay for Google for search? Could you not get any news if you couldn’t pay for it?

Websites that do not have any European presence could care less about EU law. I just gave a real world example of what’s going on in the US right now. Florida has a law that says porn sites must have age verification. Xvideos completely ignores the law.

But back to Google, if it weren’t ad supported, does that mean minors couldn’t use it or the poor? Right now, poor and even homeless people can get smart phones for free with data (or use WiFi) from the government.

Would people he don’t have home internet access who can now go to the library not use Google if they don’t pay for it?

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11. jychan+Xb1[view] [source] 2025-04-06 08:31:08
>>scarfa+C11
How old are you?

Are you familiar with broadcast TV that is supported by "viewers like you"? And historically TV advertising was banned until the FCC allowed it. And you do realize that news used to be paid? You'd be surprised that... people used read the newspaper with their morning breakfast, which cost a few cents and was delivered by a paperboy.

Really, you're trying to imply that society wouldn't function without advertising- when it was the default until the last 100 years or so. Perhaps you should watch Mad Men on HBO, which depicts the 1960s era when sociopaths of the advertising industry decided to redefine advertising as a necessity of modern living.

> Right now, poor and even homeless people can get smart phones for free with data (or use WiFi) from the government.

If the government is willing to subsidize Google Android phones running on a network like AT&T or T-Mobile for poor people... what's to stop the government from also subsidizing Google Search for poor people as well? It's not like Google's gonna care much about poor people, people who are that poor tend not to be good advertising targets anyways. The juicy ad market is elsewhere. Similarly, have you gone to any library recently? Libraries already offer stuff like access to a NYTimes or WSJ subscription, or even things like LinkedIn Learning. Adding Google to the list as another subscription that they offer to library card holders for free is a nonissue.

Honestly, it just sounds like you've been brainwashed into being unable to visualize a society without advertising.

Frankly, nobody gives a shit if EU or whatever websites continue to do their thing. US porn sites have negative political capital anyways, XVideos continuing operate as before impacting the US porn industry would make any hypothetical law EASIER to pass, not more difficult.

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12. scarfa+Il1[view] [source] 2025-04-06 10:50:01
>>jychan+Xb1
> Are you familiar with broadcast TV that is supported by viewers like you.

I’m old enough to know that even in the 80s Mr. Rogers was in front of congress asking the government not to cut funding because some conservative congressmen were opposed to some of the content.

And the actual phrase was “… and viewers like you”

PBS always had corporate “sponsors” they announced during pre or post show credits just like NPR does today. Corporate “sponsors” are just advertisers by a different name.

How do you think the current administration would think about PBS supporting gay pride month or Black history month? Would the current government help fund HBCU libraries or would they come under their “anti DEI” crusade?

> And historically TV advertising was banned until the FCC allowed it

This is not true. The earliest TV and radio broadcasting companies were advertising supported.

> You'd be surprised that... people used read the newspaper with their morning breakfast, which cost a few cents and was delivered by a paperboy.

And those papers still had advertising. The subscriptions never paid the total cost of newspaper publications

> when it was the default until the last 100 years or so

Coca Cola has been big in advertising since it was first incorporated in 1880s. Are you saying there was no advertising 100 years ago on media that didn’t exist like the radio, TV and internet?

> what's to stop the government from also subsidizing Google Search for poor people as well

You mean the same government today that is rewriting history, purging government websites and has a list of words that agencies can’t say? You want that government having more control of private speech? Or would you prefer the last government who also pressured private entities not to publish things that went against the government narrative about Covid? Even though now we know some of the things that they suppressed was true.

I don’t mean the anti-vax stuff. I mean the government wouldn’t admit for the longest that immunity from the vaccine waned and you needed another shot after six months even though other government’s health agencies started recommending them.

> Adding Google to the list as another subscription that they offer to library card holders for free is a nonissue.

And then also those sites that Google is linking to? What are the chances that the government allows libraries to pay for content that the government disagrees with?

Would the current government pay for access to Fox News and The Guardian or just Fox News? Today the government is withholding funding from colleges that don’t toe the line and says things it disagrees with. Oh yeah and deporting protesters who are here legally. This is the government that you want paying for and controlling content?

> Honestly, it just sounds like you've been brainwashed into being unable to visualize a society without advertising.

Well seeing that you are factually wrong about history and ignoring what the government is doing right now when it comes to making sure that only its views are heard….

And I’m bringing up porn because porn websites are regulated today heavily in some states and one of the most popular sites overall which is not hosted in the US is completely ignoring it.

As far as sites with negative capital, in todays client, any site that is pro-Palestine, LGBT, minorities, anti Musk/Trump etc not only has negative capital, it’s actually been pressured by the government and news organizations are already capitulating.

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