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[return to "A fiscal crisis is looming for many US cities"]
1. Workac+7f[view] [source] 2025-02-20 19:43:07
>>rntn+(OP)
Not all, and they are rarer today, pensions were totally insane back in the day.

One of my mothers friends, who is now in her 80's, has been retired on a pension for over 40 years. She started working for her municipality right out of high school at 18, and worked 25 years as a clerk to get a full pension. Retired at 43(!) with 75% final pay (annually adjusted) and lifelong medical benefits.

Its totally insane and completely unsustainable. Back in the day people usually keeled over at 65 and the US was viewed as having achieved infinite growth forever, so perhaps back then it was a reasonable but generous offer. Today however it's just straight up corruption and waste to offer benefits like that.

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2. subsub+yh[view] [source] 2025-02-20 19:56:14
>>Workac+7f
My Dad's friend is a retired fire chief, my Dad told me he makes $300K a year in retirement! That is beyond insane as it ends up costing (with a retirement at say 55) about 30 or so years of payments which adds up to $9M for the reminder of his life. This is clearly not sustainable and when you add up social security and 401k it ends up with a kings ransom for a public servant.
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3. ryandr+6K[view] [source] 2025-02-20 22:24:47
>>subsub+yh
What about solidarity? Instead of criticizing another worker’s situation as “insane”, we should be asking: why can’t we also have this kind of retirement package? They’ve successfully pitted worker vs worker.

I don’t think that retired fire chief’s (or school teachers') retirement is what’s wrong: what’s wrong is that most of us will not have a retirement that good. Why is that? It is possible to answer that question without tearing down someone else’s situation.

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4. autoex+1P[view] [source] 2025-02-20 22:46:54
>>ryandr+6K
It comes from crab bucket mentality and a pervasive fear that somebody somewhere might be getting something they don't "deserve".

Everyone who gives a company years of their life should be able to comfortably retire after decades of service, but companies have managed to convince workers that most of them should work until the day they die and only a small precious few deserve to retire and finally be allowed to spend time with their loved ones.

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5. ryandr+KR[view] [source] 2025-02-20 23:01:46
>>autoex+1P
Exactly. "Look at that guy, who has it slightly better than you. He's really the problem!"
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6. spwa4+Bg1[view] [source] 2025-02-21 01:49:04
>>ryandr+KR
How does that work? That guy, pensioner, who has it slightly better than you, is a different way of saying that:

1) that guy gets your labor, for decades. 4 decades to be exact

2) for less than you'll get for that work

(that's what getting a higher pension actually means in the real world, with money being an abstraction and all that)

3) he (or she) doesn't get more because they worked harder or better, but because they were working when a random political vote needed to be made (paid for, really). And that, not only won't repeat, but there's absolutely nothing you can do to change the situation to your benefit, even just to equalize. That last part is of course what makes taking away their benefits attractive.

Sounds pretty unfair to me. At least with a CEO they did something to get what they got, and there is a way to get their position, even if most will never achieve that.

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7. ryandr+el1[view] [source] 2025-02-21 02:45:46
>>spwa4+Bg1
It's absolutely unfair. But the solution is to raise the rest of us up, not tear these people down. Why don't I have a retirement like that? Why don't you have a retirement like that? Those are the questions we should be asking. Not "He shouldn't make that much!" The people who earn literally 100X that pensioner are laughing at us as we fight each other
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8. spwa4+623[view] [source] 2025-02-21 16:58:43
>>ryandr+el1
How would that work? Could you explain? Because the only way to do that is to lower the price of labor. To greatly increase the availability of labor. You can do this with a lot of births, and we're finding out you can't really do it with immigration even.

So how would that work? The children that would need to provide that labor for me when I'm 65 would have to have been born already (they start work at, say, 20 years old). This has already happened, therefore, and cannot be fixed.

... which is of course another argument to take the pension away ... after all that's the only way to make it fair. You can play games with money, but money is an abstraction. You cannot raise up the necessary amount of people, the amount of people politicians promised us in trade for votes. It's not a matter of priorities anymore either, we're past the point where using 100% of the labor force would work.

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