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[return to "Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon"]
1. rappat+0c[view] [source] 2025-01-22 01:38:25
>>Ozarki+(OP)
I think his original sentence was absolutely deserved—even though the charge of hiring a contract killer to assassinate his business competition may have been dropped, I think it's clear he did many things in the same vein. Even if you support his original pursuit of a free and open online marketplace, I think most people would agree he took it a bridge too far in the end.

That said, I do think he absolutely deserved to be released, not because he didn't deserve to be locked up in the first place, but because he's clearly been rehabilitated and has done great work during his time in prison. All that considered, ten years seems like a not unreasonable prison sentence for what he did. I hope he'll continue to do good when he's released.

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2. bko+Yf[view] [source] 2025-01-22 02:03:57
>>rappat+0c
Ross Ulbricht was not sentenced for murder-for-hire charges.

Those allegations were used to deny him bail and influenced public perception, they were not part of his formal conviction or sentencing.

He was convicted on non-violent charges related to operating the Silk Road website, including drug distribution, computer hacking, and money laundering.

Does this change your opinion of sentencing being well-deserved?

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3. cmdli+Sh[view] [source] 2025-01-22 02:16:51
>>bko+Yf
He was found during sentencing to be guilty of hiring a hit on a competitor using a preponderance of evidence (lower then presumption of innocence). While this is a lower standard than a conviction, it is still a higher standard than most apply in public discourse.
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4. roenxi+Kj[view] [source] 2025-01-22 02:29:42
>>cmdli+Sh
That isn't fair, the point of the trial is to test whether something is to be acted on. To act on something that wasn't directly part of the trial is a bit off. I'm sure the judge is acting in the clear legally, but if someone is going to be sentenced for attempted murder then that should be after a trial that formally accuses them of the crime.
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5. wahern+No[view] [source] 2025-01-22 03:10:06
>>roenxi+Kj
This cuts both ways as judges often adjust their sentencing downward based on mitigating evidence. For both aggravating and mitigating circumstances evidence does need to be submitted, and there are standards of proof to be applied. It's just that the procedural rules can be different and, depending on the context and jurisdiction, sufficiency can be decided by the judge alone. In some jurisdictions, for example, aggravating evidence may need to be put to the jury, while mitigating evidence need not be.

The U.S. is rather unique in providing a right to jury trials for most--in practice almost all, including misdemeanor--criminal cases. And this is a major factor for why sentencing is so harsh and prosecutions so slow in the U.S. In myriad ways the cost of criminal trials has induced the system to arrive at its current state favoring plea deals, with overlapping crimes and severe maximum penalties as cudgels. Be careful about what kind of "protections" you want to impose.

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6. Anthon+aK[view] [source] 2025-01-22 06:48:36
>>wahern+No
> This cuts both ways as judges often adjust their sentencing downward based on mitigating evidence.

It isn't supposed to cut both ways. The prosecution is supposed to have the higher burden, and admitting unproven allegations is excessively prejudicial.

> In myriad ways the cost of criminal trials has induced the system to arrive at its current state favoring plea deals, with overlapping crimes and severe maximum penalties as cudgels. Be careful about what kind of "protections" you want to impose.

The lesson from this should be to make the protections strong enough that they can't be thwarted like this. For example, prohibit plea bargaining so that all convictions require a trial and it's forbidden to impose any penalty for demanding one.

It's not supposed to be efficient. It's supposed to be rare.

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7. wqaatw+wL[view] [source] 2025-01-22 07:03:48
>>Anthon+aK
So e.g. >90% (or whatever it’s now multiplied by several times) should be entirely ignored because the legal/judicial system won’t have enough resources to prosecute them?
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8. kortil+YM[view] [source] 2025-01-22 07:17:51
>>wqaatw+wL
Yes. Scale up the judicial system and cut laws if needed.

Also, there will likely still be some pleas. Some people own up to being guilty and want to move on.

There is an absolute dearth of lawyers to support this. We just need more courts and more judges for the initial surge of a couple of years.

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9. wqaatw+Yi1[view] [source] 2025-01-22 12:22:15
>>kortil+YM
So most property crimes will not longer be prosecuted?

Also how exactly are jury trials superior to e.g. Magistrates Courts in the UK?

Isn’t the American legal system already very bloated and inefficient? So spending even more money on it might not be the best idea?

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10. Anthon+sp2[view] [source] 2025-01-22 18:54:11
>>wqaatw+Yi1
> Also how exactly are jury trials superior to e.g. Magistrates Courts in the UK?

The purpose of the trial is to separate the innocent from the guilty, and there is intended to be a presumption of innocence. But because the prosecution has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, they'll tend to only bring cases when there is a high probability of guilt -- a good thing -- so then let's say 90% of the defendants are probably guilty and 60% are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

A judge is going to become intimately familiar with that. ~90% of the defendants are actually guilty, so the judge develops the intuition that a new defendant is very likely guilty. That's a presumption of guilt. Soon even the innocent ones are getting convicted, when the whole point of the process was to prevent that.

A jury is a fresh set of eyes who look at the defendant as the only case they're going to be deciding for the foreseeable future and haven't been prejudiced by a parade of evildoers sitting in the same chair. It's also twelve separate people who each individually have to be convinced.

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11. wqaatw+nT3[view] [source] 2025-01-23 08:24:10
>>Anthon+sp2
Yet the conviction rate in England was 84 % in magistrates courts (misdemeanors and low level felonies) and 78 % in crown courts (more serious crimes) which is not that different. Especially if we consider how a lot of crimes like DUIs are somewhat open & shut compared to more serious offenses.

> so the judge develops the intuition that a new defendant is very likely guilty.

A good judge wouldn’t do that. Also by and large random people are relatively dumb and biased. Why exactly are they less likely to convict an innocent person? (Let’s assume that the conviction rate is the same in both cases)

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12. Anthon+ar6[view] [source] 2025-01-24 09:33:58
>>wqaatw+nT3
> Yet the conviction rate in England was 84 % in magistrates courts (misdemeanors and low level felonies) and 78 % in crown courts (more serious crimes) which is not that different.

The conviction rate can't really tell you anything because prosecutors will calibrate to bring cases they think they can win in a given system. Systems willing to convict more innocent people will have similar conviction rates but more innocent defendants.

> A good judge wouldn’t do that.

What about a human judge?

> Also by and large random people are relatively dumb and biased. Why exactly are they less likely to convict an innocent person?

Because you have to convince all twelve of them.

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