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[return to "The Origins of Wokeness"]
1. yapyap+nd1[view] [source] 2025-01-13 18:44:52
>>crbela+(OP)
I think the word “woke” means very different things to some people.

As an example I think people from the American political left to somewhere(?) in the middle see it as what it has been introduced as, that being looking past the status quo and instead looking at your own values, i.e. the morality of homelessness and not having a disdain for them but empathy for them instead.

and then on the other side it feels like the people on the American political right see it as what this website describes it as “ A self-righteously moralistic person who behaves as if superior to others.”

I think the divide has originated from taking unlikeable behaviour and labeling that as ‘woke’ (in bad faith of course) and some people have just bonded to that definition so much that they see it as that.

At least that’s what I’ve noticed online over the past few (bonkers) years

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2. Alexan+sn1[view] [source] 2025-01-13 19:25:06
>>yapyap+nd1
> i.e. the morality of homelessness and not having a disdain for them but empathy for them instead.

Ok, I'll bite. What is having empathy for the homeless? Is allowing unconstrained immigration to increase competition for entry-level positions empathy? What about restrictions on construction that make housing completely unaffordable? Is that empathy? Is leaving the drug-addicted portion of the homeless out on the street to battle their addictions on their own empathy[1]?

Saying nice words (not having disdain) is not the same thing as helping someone.

[1] https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-call-that-compassio...

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3. CFLAdd+AW1[view] [source] 2025-01-13 21:38:34
>>Alexan+sn1
While "Empathy for the homeless" can situationally mean talking nicely about them, it also means stopping, blocking, and undoing directly terrible actions against the homeless.

Bulldozing peoples' stuff is in fact pretty bad. Having laws against giving money to people is in fact pretty bad. Putting hostile architecture everywhere is in fact pretty bad. People make decisions, over and over again, to not just hurt homeless people, but also hurt the people trying to help homeless people.

Stopping people from doing that is called "empathy for the homeless". It's called that because saying and feeling bad things about people is part of the process of hurting them. It's how people agree who is and isn't okay to hurt. By stopping group efforts to make things worse, you only have to worry about random individuals trying to make things worse for other random individuals. Which is unstoppable but untargeted.

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4. pdimit+na2[view] [source] 2025-01-13 22:52:28
>>CFLAdd+AW1
Sounds nice and virtuous... until you remember there exist gangs of homeless people who mug law-abiding citizens, retreat into the structures that you want defended from demolishing, and cry victim when people want to stop their crimes. Not to mention they use the said structures as a hub to distribute drugs to the local community of teenagers.

You see, the problem with every such discussion is the lack of nuance and the willingness to demonize e.g. parents who want their kids to be safe in their neighborhoods.

What you call lack of empathy for the homeless is, in some instances, the concern and actions of the said parents.

So do these parents truly lack empathy, how do you think? Or they say "no matter what hand life dealt you, please just stay away from my kids"?

What's your opinion?

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5. rbits+rw3[view] [source] 2025-01-14 10:49:54
>>pdimit+na2
Your dislike of "gangs of homeless people" existing shouldn't be directed at the homeless people, but the gangs. In an area where black communities have high crime rates, the answer wouldn't be to go after black people, but address the crime directly. I don't see why this should any different.
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6. pdimit+pX3[view] [source] 2025-01-14 14:22:05
>>rbits+rw3
I heard police officers say that lot of homeless people are doing some sort of crime.

It's not an oppression to read statistics. It's a good first step in trying to fix stuff.

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7. chaps+js4[view] [source] 2025-01-14 16:28:34
>>pdimit+pX3
God help us; the vagrants are doing some sorts of crime. And reading statistics on this stuff? Hah! The police don't even report crime statistics:

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/07/13/fbi-crime-rate...

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8. pdimit+415[view] [source] 2025-01-14 18:29:20
>>chaps+js4
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I was a guest in communities where people said they had problems with homeless people on a regular basis.

You are free to not believe it. I for the moment believe my eyes and ears.

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9. chaps+e45[view] [source] 2025-01-14 18:41:01
>>pdimit+415
Of course that shit happens on a constant basis and it's silly of you to think that my position isn't that shit happens.

Think about it like this: if you had no food, were starving, and the only way to eat for the night is to steal something, wouldn't you do it to? Or are you going to allow yourself to literally die because you're afraid to commit a crime? Nah. You will want to live.

I was once held up at gunpoint by three folk who stole my wallet, keys, phone, etc. Over the next 48 hours or so I watched the phone bill logs to see where they were calling. Hospital and HIV clinic were on the list. I asked the main dude why he was robbing me and he responded, "Man, we're just trying to live."

Grow some empathy for your fellow man.

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10. pdimit+g55[view] [source] 2025-01-14 18:45:01
>>chaps+e45
No, I will not. I was in desperate situations as well, managed to crawl out without robbing anyone.

Again, believe what makes you feel good. I am looking out for myself because I was only backstabbed all my life and I am not far from a desperate situation again... in my 40s and with a supposedly prestigious profession (programmer) but almost nobody is hiring.

My empathy only resulted in my money and literal health going toward people who don't appreciate it. Nobody ever worked for my cause. Ever. Not once.

You are a classic victim of a filter bubble. "Worked out for me, must work out for everyone". No, in fact it does not work for most.

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11. chaps+tb5[view] [source] 2025-01-14 19:12:28
>>pdimit+g55
I hope you never experience homelessness or addiction, but if you do, I hope it humbles you.
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