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[return to "Cubic millimetre of brain mapped at nanoscale resolution"]
1. throwu+J7[view] [source] 2024-05-09 22:41:26
>>geox+(OP)
> The 3D map covers a volume of about one cubic millimetre, one-millionth of a whole brain, and contains roughly 57,000 cells and 150 million synapses — the connections between neurons.

This is great and provides a hard data point for some napkin math on how big a neural network model would have to be to emulate the human brain. 150 million synapses / 57,000 neurons is an average of 2,632 synapses per neuron. The adult human brain has 100 (+- 20) billion or 1e11 neurons so assuming the average rate of synapse/neuron holds, that's 2.6e14 total synapses.

Assuming 1 parameter per synapse, that'd make the minimum viable model several hundred times larger than state of the art GPT4 (according to the rumored 1.8e12 parameters). I don't think that's granular enough and we'd need to assume 10-100 ion channels per synapse and I think at least 10 parameters per ion channel, putting the number closer to 2.6e16+ parameters, or 4+ orders of magnitude bigger than GPT4.

There are other problems of course like implementing neuroplasticity, but it's a fun ball park calculation. Computing power should get there around 2048: >>38919548

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2. cybera+Xd[view] [source] 2024-05-09 23:41:17
>>throwu+J7
On the other hand, a significant amount of neural circuitry seems to be dedicated to "housekeeping" needs, and to functions such as locomotion.

So we might need significantly less brain matter for general intelligence.

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3. alanbe+Gt[view] [source] 2024-05-10 02:48:54
>>cybera+Xd
Or perhaps the housekeeping of existing in the physical world is a key aspect of general intelligence.
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4. Intral+0J[view] [source] 2024-05-10 06:34:51
>>alanbe+Gt
Isn't that kinda obvious? A baby that grows up in a sensory deprivation tank does not… develop, as most intelligent persons do.
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5. squigz+xv1[view] [source] 2024-05-10 13:52:03
>>Intral+0J
A true sensory deprivation tank is not a fair comparison, I think, because AI is not deprived of all its 'senses' - it is still prompted, responds, etc.

Would a baby that grows up in a sensory deprivation tank, but is still able to communicate and learn from other humans, develop in a recognizable manner?

I would think so. Let's not try it ;)

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6. Intral+ba2[view] [source] 2024-05-10 17:25:02
>>squigz+xv1
> Would a baby that grows up in a sensory deprivation tank, but is still able to communicate and learn from other humans, develop in a recognizable manner?

I don't think so, because humans communicate and learn largely about the world. Words mean nothing without at least some sense of objective physical reality (be it via sight, sound, smell, or touch) that the words refer to.

Hellen Keller, with access to three out of five main senses (and an otherwise fully functioning central nervous system):

    Before my teacher came to me, I did not know that I am. I lived in a world that was a no-world. I cannot hope to describe adequately that unconscious, yet conscious time of nothingness... Since I had no power of thought, I did not compare one mental state with another.

    I did not know that I knew aught, or that I lived or acted or desired. I had neither will nor intellect. I was carried along to objects and acts by a certain blind natural impetus. I had a mind which caused me to feel anger, satisfaction, desire. These two facts led those about me to suppose that I willed and thought. I can remember all this, not because I knew that it was so, but because I have tactual memory. It enables me to remember that I never contracted my forehead in the act of thinking. I never viewed anything beforehand or chose it. I also recall tactually the fact that never in a start of the body or a heart-beat did I feel that I loved or cared for anything. My inner life, then, was a blank without past, present, or future, without hope or anticipation, without wonder or joy or faith.
I remember reading her book. The breakthrough moment where she acquired language, and conscious thought, directly involved correlating the physical tactile feeling of running water to the letters "W", "A", "T", "E", "R" traced onto her palm.
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7. squigz+0w2[view] [source] 2024-05-10 19:19:52
>>Intral+ba2
That's a really good point. Thanks!
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