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[return to "Google ordered to identify who watched certain YouTube videos"]
1. addict+J6[view] [source] 2024-03-23 02:39:20
>>wut42+(OP)
There are different incidents here.

The first one where the police uploaded videos and wanted viewer information is absolutely egregious and makes me wonder how a court could authorize that.

The next one, which I didn’t fully understand, but appeared to be in response to a swatting incident where the culprit is believed to have watched a specific camera livestream and the police provided a lot of narrowing details (time period, certain other characteristics, etc) appears far more legitimate.

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2. godels+Zb[view] [source] 2024-03-23 03:52:38
>>addict+J6
I don't understand how either of these are remotely constitutional. They sure aren't what is in the spirit.

They asked for information about a video watched 30k times. Supposing every person watched that video 10 times AND supposing the target was one of the viewers (it really isn't clear that this is true), that's 2999 people who have had their rights violated to search for one. I believe Blackstone has something to say about this[0]. Literally 30x Blackstone's ratio, who heavily influenced the founding fathers.

I don't think any of this appears legitimate.

Edit: Ops [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio

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3. jamesh+Se[view] [source] 2024-03-23 04:32:01
>>godels+Zb
Blackstone: "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

So not sure where you got the impression he's okay with up to 100 people being disturbed so we can catch one bad guy.

But then, he wasn't really talking about that was he? Better the guilty go free than the innocent suffer what? He was, essentially, talking about the principle of innocent until proven guilty; that innocent people shouldn't suffer by being punished for a crime unjustly.

2999 innocent people, in your formulation, though, are not being punished for a crime. They're not even being accused of a crime.

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4. Anthon+lh[view] [source] 2024-03-23 05:10:58
>>jamesh+Se
> innocent people, in your formulation, though, are not being punished for a crime. They're not even being accused of a crime.

They are, however, being harmed.

It's easier to use historical examples because they're not afflicted with modern politics.

The FBI was known to investigate and harass civil rights leaders during the civil rights movement. Suppose they want to do that today.

Step one, come up with some pretext for why they should get a list of all the people who watched some video. It only has to be strong enough to get the list, not result in a conviction, because the point is only to get the list. Meanwhile the system is designed to punish them for a thin pretext by excluding the evidence when they go to charge someone and their lawyer provides context and an adversarial voice, but since their goal here isn't to gather evidence for a particular investigation, that's no deterrent.

Step two, now that they have the list of people interested in this type of content they can go on a fishing expedition looking for ways to harass them or charge them with unrelated crimes. This harms them, they're innocent people, therefore this should be prevented. Ideally by never recording this type of information to begin with.

There is a reason good librarians are wary about keeping a history of who borrowed a particular book.

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5. echelo+Mi[view] [source] 2024-03-23 05:30:33
>>Anthon+lh
> They are, however, being harmed.

No they're not. Which ones will live a day less of their lives?

If I'm on surveillance footage near a crime scene, police have the right to look for me and question me. This isn't any different. It's just different sets of photons and electrons.

I respect the rights to privacy, but a crime happened, and the police have the tools to investigate. It's barely an inconvenience.

The burden of proof will still be on the investigators and prosecution to find out and show beyond a shadow of a doubt who performed the swatting.

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6. josefx+Rl[view] [source] 2024-03-23 06:31:50
>>echelo+Mi
> No they're not. Which ones will live a day less of their lives?

There are cases like the bombing in Madrid where the US agencies cast out a wide net over possible suspects using data about people who converted to Islam and then used a bad finger print match (which everyone told them was garbage) to terrorize one suspect for weeks. They had no evidence that the guy was involved, they had no evidence that any of their suspects was involved, but they had a narrative and where happy about every bit of data that supported it. Meanwhile Spain convicted the actual bombers.

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7. godels+rn[view] [source] 2024-03-23 06:55:33
>>josefx+Rl
What's your point? Someone wrongly being detained/prosecuted/charged/hung/etc in the past does not make it right now. It doesn't make it any less wrong then. Nor are people of a government homogeneous. Especially America. The great American past time is shitting on America. But if you're going to dismiss wrong because wrong was done in the past (or even let it slide or be apathetic) that is enabling. Being upset and angry is very different than apathy.
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8. josefx+xo[view] [source] 2024-03-23 07:09:34
>>godels+rn
My point was that it was wrong. I do not agree with casting wide nets in the hope that someone might fit whatever profile the police or other agencies have pulled out of their asses.
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9. godels+yt[view] [source] 2024-03-23 08:33:13
>>josefx+xo
Your point came off as whataboutism. This may not be what was intended, but this is how I interpreted it and it appears that others did as well. Thank you for clarifying and I'm sorry we miscommunicated.
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