zlacker

>>ssgodd+(OP)
Solidly rooting for NYT on this - it’s felt like many creative organizations have been asleep at the wheel while their lunch gets eaten for a second time (the first being at the birth of modern search engines.)

I don’t necessarily fault OpenAI’s decision to initially train their models without entering into licensing agreements - they probably wouldn’t exist and the generative AI revolution may never have happened if they put the horse before the cart. I do think they should quickly course correct at this point and accept the fact that they clearly owe something to the creators of content they are consuming. If they don’t, they are setting themselves up for a bigger loss down the road and leaving the door open for a more established competitor (Google) to do it the right way.

>>kbos87+Na
Doesn't this harm open source ML by adding yet another costly barrier to training models?

>>hacker+1k
It doesn't matter what's good for open source ML.

It matters what is legal and what makes sense.

>>onlyre+zl
It matters what ends up being best for humanity, and I think there are cases to be made both ways on this

>>bbkane+ym
People often get buried in the weeds about the purpose of copyright. Let us not forget that the only reason copyright laws exist is

> To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries

If copyright is starting to impede rather than promote progress, then it needs to change to remain constitutional.

>>joquar+8w
The reason copyright promotes progress is that it incentives individuals and organizations to release works publicly, knowing their works are protected against unlawful copying.

The end game when large content producers like The New York Times are squeezed due to copyright not being enforced is that they will become more draconian in their DRM measures. If you don't like paywalls now, watch out for what happens if a free-for-all is allowed for model training on copyrighted works without monetary compensation.

I had a similar conversation with my brother-in-law who's an economist by training, but now works in data science. Initially he was in the side of OpenAI, said that model training data is fair game. After probing him, he came to the same conclusion I describe: not enforcing copyright for model training data will just result in a tightening of free access to data.

We're already seeing it from the likes of Twitter/X and Reddit. That trend is likely to spread to more content-rich companies and get even more draconian as time goes on.

>>nsagen+8K
I doubt there’s much that technical controls can do to limit the spread of NYT content, their only real recourse is to try suing unauthorized distributors. You only need to copy something once for it to be free.