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[return to "The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement"]
1. kbos87+Na[view] [source] 2023-12-27 15:03:43
>>ssgodd+(OP)
Solidly rooting for NYT on this - it’s felt like many creative organizations have been asleep at the wheel while their lunch gets eaten for a second time (the first being at the birth of modern search engines.)

I don’t necessarily fault OpenAI’s decision to initially train their models without entering into licensing agreements - they probably wouldn’t exist and the generative AI revolution may never have happened if they put the horse before the cart. I do think they should quickly course correct at this point and accept the fact that they clearly owe something to the creators of content they are consuming. If they don’t, they are setting themselves up for a bigger loss down the road and leaving the door open for a more established competitor (Google) to do it the right way.

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2. theGnu+Ri[view] [source] 2023-12-27 15:47:48
>>kbos87+Na
It’s likely fair use.
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3. hn_thr+BA[view] [source] 2023-12-27 17:27:02
>>theGnu+Ri
It's likely not. Search for "the four factors of fair use". While I think OpenAI will have decent arguments for 3 of the factors, they'll get killed on the fourth factor, "the effect of the use on the potential market", which is what this lawsuit is really about.

If your "fair use" substantially negatively affects the market for the original source material, which I think is fairly clear in this case, the courts wont look favorably on that.

Of course, I think this is a great test case precisely because the power of "Internet scale" and generative AI is fundamentally different than our previous notions about why we wanted a "fair use exception" in the first place.

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4. throwu+eF[view] [source] 2023-12-27 17:54:04
>>hn_thr+BA
Fair use is based on a flexible proportionality test so they don't need perfect arguments on all factors.

> If your "fair use" substantially negatively affects the market for the original source material, which I think is fairly clear in this case, the courts wont look favorably on that.

I think it's fairly clear that it doesn't. No one is going to use ChatGPT to circumvent NYTimes paywalls when archive.ph and the NoPaywall browser extension exist and any copyright violations would be on the publisher of ChatGPT's content.

But let's not pretend like any of us have any clue what's going to happen in this case. Even if Judge Alsup gets it, we're so far in uncharted territory any speculation is useless.

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