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[return to "The pro-Israel information war"]
1. jdross+15[view] [source] 2023-12-08 19:20:04
>>anigbr+(OP)
Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602

If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143...

It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1730255552738201854

US views skew pro-israel, and GenZ is closer to 50/50, so if there's something going on online, it's not in favor of Israel.

It's probably relevant that there are 1 billion Muslims to 16 million Jews, and that the largest relevant population of pro-Israeli internationals is India and Indian Hindus, and they are not on TikTok (blocked in India).

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2. sertbd+bg[view] [source] 2023-12-08 20:15:31
>>jdross+15
> Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms.

> If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views.

That platforms prioritize one over the other is just one possible explanation. An alternative explanation is that more people already have those views. And it's dishonest to present one explanation and omit the other.

Nothing inflames people like injustice.

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3. sabarn+Mt[view] [source] 2023-12-08 21:15:51
>>sertbd+bg
There is an ocean of injustice in the world and this one issue causes more anger than many that are equally abhorrent.
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4. cies+cB[view] [source] 2023-12-08 21:48:24
>>sabarn+Mt
> equally abohorrent

Comparing it to the Ukraine's invasion and we can see this is so much more "invasive". There's a literal wall around 2M ppl with little agency, while most of them are refugees from the other side of the wall.

To methis is one of the most abohorrent conflicts in earth in this day and age. Given South Africa is no longer segregated, and Rwanda reconciled.

I'd be interested to hear what's equally abhorrent in your view.

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5. sabarn+3F[view] [source] 2023-12-08 22:05:23
>>cies+cB
Gaza has been pseudo self governed since 2005, and is ruled by an authoritarian theocratic regime. The situation was intolerable on 10/6 but understood. What exactly should israel do after the 10/7 attacks. To me attempting to degrade Hamas is what any other state would do. War in one of the most densely populated places on earth is going to kill a lot of people. The only other option it would seem to me would be to ignore the attacks which I'm sure wouldn't be acceptable to the citizens of Israel.
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6. bjourn+kM[view] [source] 2023-12-08 22:43:03
>>sabarn+3F
During Second World War the Czech resistance assassinated Reich Protector Reinhard Heydrich. To exact revenge the Nazis destroyed the village of Lidice and murdered 340 villagers. If we had social media back then, people would have made the same argument you now do. That the Germans had no choice but to eradicate the village. Because, hey, the only other option would be to ignore the attacks which surely wouldn't have been acceptable to any German.
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7. sabarn+CZ[view] [source] 2023-12-08 23:47:10
>>bjourn+kM
What would you suggest Israel do if fighting hamas is not an option. Also the Nazis killed civilians as a goal not by happenstance.
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8. bjourn+7d2[view] [source] 2023-12-09 11:57:51
>>sabarn+CZ
“We are asked to look for high-rise buildings with half a floor that can be attributed to Hamas,” said one source who took part in previous Israeli offensives in Gaza. “Sometimes it is a militant group’s spokesperson’s office, or a point where operatives meet. I understood that the floor is an excuse that allows the army to cause a lot of destruction in Gaza. That is what they told us.

“If they would tell the whole world that the [Islamic Jihad] offices on the 10th floor are not important as a target, but that its existence is a justification to bring down the entire high-rise with the aim of pressuring civilian families who live in it in order to put pressure on terrorist organizations, this would itself be seen as terrorism. So they do not say it,” the source added.

https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-cal...

The destruction levied in Gaza is not about achieving any military aims. It is about satiating the Israeli public's monstrous appetite for blood. The primary goal of the government is ensuring that it wins the next election too. Benjamin Netanyahu wasn't joking when he said "remember Amalek".

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9. lovely+3C2[view] [source] 2023-12-09 15:36:41
>>bjourn+7d2
In your response I did not see your answer to the significant part of the question in parent comment. Which is:

“ What would you suggest Israel do if fighting hamas is not an option.”

Avoiding hard questions is easier as it doesn’t require responsibility. Are you able to provide your answer please to the hardest part of the parent comment?

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10. bjourn+YF2[view] [source] 2023-12-09 16:01:47
>>lovely+3C2
This is the same false dilemma that the American war hawks posed prior to the invasion of Iraq in 2003. "What should we do if we can't invade Iraq??" You were then supposed to argue that the US had options and the hawks would then one by one attempt to disqualify those options. It's an incredibly dishonest way of conducting debate.

Read the article I linked to. Then claim with a straight face that razing Gaza is the only option Israel has.

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11. lovely+Y53[view] [source] 2023-12-09 18:53:00
>>bjourn+YF2
> Read the article I linked to. Then claim with a straight face that razing Gaza is the only option Israel has.

Great comment and again no answer.

You think question with suggestive answer is dishonest way of conducting debate? Ok. I get that. Let’s remove any suggestiveness from the question. “ What would you suggest Israel do if fighting hamas is not an option.”

I am not OP an I personally did not suggest anything, I just wanted to see your responsible answer.

So, what Israel should do in your opinion? And what outcome you expect after it does it?

PS: I’ve read the article. Disappointed by the quality of it. It is written with intention of emotional impact and to push predefined agenda. It twists meaning by playing with words. I notice those tricks and can’t read it with keeping my face ‘straight’( using your word).

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12. Diogen+At3[view] [source] 2023-12-09 21:01:08
>>lovely+Y53
> It is written with intention of emotional impact and to push predefined agenda.

The "agenda" is to make people aware of the fact that Israel is deliberately targeting civilians, based on sources within the IDF who work on targeting. The "emotional impact" is that any person with normal human emotions would be sickened by the fact that Israel is killing tens of thousands of civilians in Gaza.

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13. lovely+JB3[view] [source] 2023-12-09 22:03:06
>>Diogen+At3
Unfortunately I notice the same tricks in your comment.

I know I asked another person but the main question was :

“ What Israel should do in your opinion? What outcome you expect once it does it?”

Can you answer that question too?

As to the “agenda” I see different “agenda”.

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14. Diogen+ou4[view] [source] 2023-12-10 07:56:24
>>lovely+JB3
Israel should either withdraw from the occupied territories or grant citizenship to the people who live there.

What it definitely should not do is murder thousands of Palestinian children and destroy the Gaza Strip. However, this is what Israel has chosen to do.

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15. lovely+Xw4[view] [source] 2023-12-10 08:32:21
>>Diogen+ou4
Can you elaborate on the second part of the quesion? “ What outcome you expect once it does it?”
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16. Diogen+sG4[view] [source] 2023-12-10 10:44:55
>>lovely+Xw4
I'd like you to elaborate on what you expect to happen if Israel continues its military campaign. 20k Palestinians have already been killed, and most people in Gaza have been rendered homeless. Everyone there is struggling to obtain the basic necessities of life, such as food, water and shelter. If Israel continues its campaign, how many more Palestinians will be killed, and how much more destruction will be done to Gaza? Will any building in Gaza be left standing? What do you think Israel plans to do to the millions of refugees it has created in Gaza over the last two months?

Looking further ahead, what do you think the consequences of continued Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories (East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza) will be? Can you justify keeping millions of people under continued military occupation, without any rights and under constant harassment? Can you justify the continuation of the dual legal regime in the occupied territories, under which Jewish settlers have full citizenship rights, while Palestinians have no rights (this is what many now characterize as Apartheid)?

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17. lovely+ks5[view] [source] 2023-12-10 18:30:37
>>Diogen+sG4
> I'd like you to elaborate …

Sure this could be a possibility once you finish describing consequences of the action of withdrawal you’ve suggested Israel to take. Suggested alternative is incomplete without you describing realistic outcome of it an thus leaves the current option Israel took as the only one possible which makes discussing it irrelevant wether you like it or not.

Please responsibly describe outcome of the suggested alternative and then we can compare it with current situation.

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