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[return to "The pro-Israel information war"]
1. jdross+15[view] [source] 2023-12-08 19:20:04
>>anigbr+(OP)
Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602

If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143...

It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1730255552738201854

US views skew pro-israel, and GenZ is closer to 50/50, so if there's something going on online, it's not in favor of Israel.

It's probably relevant that there are 1 billion Muslims to 16 million Jews, and that the largest relevant population of pro-Israeli internationals is India and Indian Hindus, and they are not on TikTok (blocked in India).

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2. master+G9[view] [source] 2023-12-08 19:46:25
>>jdross+15
Anti-semitism in and of itself is unequivocally wrong.

But conflating anti-Israeli views with anti-Semitic views does a disservice to Jews and Palestinians alike.

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3. Evgeni+Qy[view] [source] 2023-12-08 21:38:00
>>master+G9
Criticizing the actions of Israel is not anti-semitic, and many Israelis and Jews are critical of the Israeli government and its actions (even more than usual during the ongoing political crisis). Many of the critics I see lack nuance (basically, "rooting for the underdog"), but that's a different problem. The problem is complicated, and there is no simple solution (some kind of two-state may work after many years).

But chants like "from the river to the sea" (meaning destroying Jewish country) and calls for an intifada (de facto violence against Jews) are anti-semitic. Supporting Hamas, whose goal is to kill as many Jews as possible, or saying Israel shouldn't defend itself against Hamas attacks is anti-semitic (Hamas is also bad for Gazans, but that's another story). I can go on and on. People holding these views may hold them not because they hate Jews (for example, I don't think that people removing posters of kidnapped Israelis necessarily hate them), but the result is all the same. There is also obvious anti-semitism unrelated to Israel, like attacking synagogues, drawing stars of David on Jewish houses, etc., but that's not what I'm talking about.

And the most vocal anti-Israelis are naturally the most extreme ones and usually include some of the stuff I mentioned. As a result, people call out anti-semitism, usually not referring to anti-Israeli critics you are talking about.

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4. abusad+oF[view] [source] 2023-12-08 22:07:40
>>Evgeni+Qy
Hello there, a Palestinian from the west bank here speaking, let me tell you something, our resistance has nothing to do with Israel being a Jewish state, if my brother stole my house and killed my children i will fight him just the same, and you would too and everyone else (I assume). jewish, muslim, christian, vegan.. doesn't matter.

Now Hamas does play on the string of religion to get to people, and so does Israel (isn't it the promised land after all?).. but the main goal is to free the people from the oppressive occupation!

and when we chant "From the river to the sea" we don't mean to kill anyone! if we can be free and live together, but have dignity and human rights, so be it!

and like Bassem Youssef said, let's imagine a world where Hamas doesn't exist, and let's call it for example the west bank. how do you justify what's happening there and the settlements expansion?

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5. mupuff+iO[view] [source] 2023-12-08 22:52:08
>>abusad+oF
Is it really worth fighting over a piece of land for generations?

It's just dirt, there's nothing special about it. Almost all borders are the results of war and conquest throughout history, it's better to accept that and move on.

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6. squidb+ZP[view] [source] 2023-12-08 23:01:26
>>mupuff+iO
It's their home and they have nowhere else to go. Wouldn't you want to preserve your community, culture and homeland?
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7. mupuff+DQ[view] [source] 2023-12-08 23:04:30
>>squidb+ZP
They have a home in Gaza and the west bank - most of Palestinians today have never been inside the 67' borders so how exactly is it their home?

I'm pro a 2 state solution based on the 67' borders, fighting over some "right of return" to a place you've never been for generations just seems like a waste of life.

And if you even take the very long term view, a 2 state solution could eventually lead to open borders, and an implicit "right of return" (after decades of peace and building trust).

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8. lazyas+Wy1[view] [source] 2023-12-09 04:47:03
>>mupuff+DQ
There are millions of people in Africa who have been born and grown up in refugee camps, and you are arguing that they should all simply give up and consider themselves settled there forever because they’ve never been to the places their parents or grandparents fled? For one thing, they might believe that an entire farm would be better to live in than a single flattened apartment?

And then you argue for the ‘67 borders: that’s 50 years ago, what makes those the borders we should roll back to when almost no Palestinians of today were alive before then?

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9. mupuff+cA1[view] [source] 2023-12-09 05:02:08
>>lazyas+Wy1
> and you are arguing that they should all simply give up and consider themselves settled there forever

I can't comment on all the situations because I have very little familiarity with refugees in africa, but assuming they don't have a state to return to and they can form a new state where they are? Then yes, 100% yes.

The 67' borders are internationally recognized, so I'm saying accept that and move on.

My grandparents lived in eastern Europe before the Holocaust, I'm not crying to return there because I have a new home.

Throughout history humans have been nomadic and moved from place to place. If you take any person and go up along their ancestry line at some point you'd probably encounter some ancestor that was displaced (by another tribe, nation, lord, just some bastard, etc), and yet we don't dwell on that.

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