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[return to "The pro-Israel information war"]
1. jdross+15[view] [source] 2023-12-08 19:20:04
>>anigbr+(OP)
Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602

If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143...

It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1730255552738201854

US views skew pro-israel, and GenZ is closer to 50/50, so if there's something going on online, it's not in favor of Israel.

It's probably relevant that there are 1 billion Muslims to 16 million Jews, and that the largest relevant population of pro-Israeli internationals is India and Indian Hindus, and they are not on TikTok (blocked in India).

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2. master+G9[view] [source] 2023-12-08 19:46:25
>>jdross+15
Anti-semitism in and of itself is unequivocally wrong.

But conflating anti-Israeli views with anti-Semitic views does a disservice to Jews and Palestinians alike.

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3. Evgeni+Qy[view] [source] 2023-12-08 21:38:00
>>master+G9
Criticizing the actions of Israel is not anti-semitic, and many Israelis and Jews are critical of the Israeli government and its actions (even more than usual during the ongoing political crisis). Many of the critics I see lack nuance (basically, "rooting for the underdog"), but that's a different problem. The problem is complicated, and there is no simple solution (some kind of two-state may work after many years).

But chants like "from the river to the sea" (meaning destroying Jewish country) and calls for an intifada (de facto violence against Jews) are anti-semitic. Supporting Hamas, whose goal is to kill as many Jews as possible, or saying Israel shouldn't defend itself against Hamas attacks is anti-semitic (Hamas is also bad for Gazans, but that's another story). I can go on and on. People holding these views may hold them not because they hate Jews (for example, I don't think that people removing posters of kidnapped Israelis necessarily hate them), but the result is all the same. There is also obvious anti-semitism unrelated to Israel, like attacking synagogues, drawing stars of David on Jewish houses, etc., but that's not what I'm talking about.

And the most vocal anti-Israelis are naturally the most extreme ones and usually include some of the stuff I mentioned. As a result, people call out anti-semitism, usually not referring to anti-Israeli critics you are talking about.

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4. wolver+2A[view] [source] 2023-12-08 21:43:07
>>Evgeni+Qy
> chants like "from the river to the sea" (meaning destroying Jewish country)

What is the truth of that? I've seen Israeli advocates make that claim and many repeat it. I've also seen an explainer in legitimate source (maybe the NY Times?) say that it means both Palestinians and Jews should be free. Does anyone have some actual, authoritative information? Something from before October 7th might be good.

> saying Israel shouldn't defend itself against Hamas attacks

Who has said that?

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5. Evgeni+zE[view] [source] 2023-12-08 22:03:26
>>wolver+2A
For example, 2017 Hamas charter [1], page 6:

The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah ... There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity. ... Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967.

Again, people may use it trying to say something else, but slogans do not exist in a vacuum. Saying "from the river to the sea" means that all people should be free is akin to saying "arbeit macht frei" is a call for the financial independence of working people.

As for your second question, calls for ceasefire appeared while Hamas terrorists weree still in Israel, by no less than U.S. representatives [2].

[1] https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/hamas-2017.pdf

[2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-ceasefire-in-gaza-mirage-is...

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6. pydry+cW[view] [source] 2023-12-08 23:32:18
>>Evgeni+zE
>Again, people may use it trying to say something else, but slogans do not exist in a vacuum.

"From the river to the sea, palestine will be free" implies a desire to see freedom not genocide.

If you're looking for slogans that genuinely impute racist genocidal intent look no further than the Israeli Prime Minister's references to Amalek.

People who say that they support Israel may not believe this imputed genocidal intent is what they support that in a practical sense it is.

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7. Evgeni+411[view] [source] 2023-12-08 23:55:22
>>pydry+cW
"Arbeit macht frei" implies a desire to see freedom not genocide.
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8. wolver+231[view] [source] 2023-12-09 00:09:32
>>Evgeni+411
One of my favorites is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea - North Korea. See, they're a democracy - for the people! :) Words, by themselves, are so easy to lie with.
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