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[return to "New York may ban noncompete employment agreements and Wall Street is not happy"]
1. vgathe+Cg[view] [source] 2023-11-18 10:41:10
>>pg_123+(OP)
Quant firms at least are one of the few places where noncompetes can make sense. It's an extremely IP sensitive industry with stupendously high pay where the employee is going to someone probably competing very directly with you, for the same/similar opportunities. Actual code + NDAs banning literal reimplementations of stuff aren't that valuable, the knowledge and ideas will stay in the head of the employees.

The two main issues I have with them are that firms tend to give them to just about everybody (instead of just to folks working very directly with real IP), and they only pay base salary, not something closer to actual total compensation (often multiples of the base pay).

Having said that, the quant firm is relatively unimportant and not a good reason to prevent a total noncompete law. It's probably better to just ban them then try and make allowances that aren't full of loopholes.

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2. caskst+w61[view] [source] 2023-11-18 16:17:09
>>vgathe+Cg
> Quant firms at least are one of the few places where noncompetes can make sense. It's an extremely IP sensitive industry with stupendously high pay where the employee is going to someone probably competing very directly with you, for the same/similar opportunities.

Cry me a river. If knowledge of some particular employees worth so much to the quant firms, then they should pay them not to leave accordingly.

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3. hamand+0f1[view] [source] 2023-11-18 17:02:00
>>caskst+w61
Knowledge of a secret does not imply that you provide value.
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4. akira2+eQ1[view] [source] 2023-11-18 20:20:49
>>hamand+0f1
Are you speaking towards the employee or towards the quant firm? If the employee has no standing to claim value, then why does the underlying business get to?
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5. bumby+lZ1[view] [source] 2023-11-18 21:13:57
>>akira2+eQ1
Because they own the trade secret. For example, they have the legal right to license a trade secret; an employee does not. It's about legal ownership of intellectual property.

As a corollary, you may read a patent and now have the knowledge of a product. But you don't have the same legal right to create and sell that product. That right is protected by the patent owner.

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6. master+P32[view] [source] 2023-11-18 21:39:20
>>bumby+lZ1
That’s not a very good example. A patent is available to read specifically because the discoverer has entered an agreement with the government to share the relevant information in return for exclusive use for a set period of time.

If they had not patented whatever it is they had, anyone could replicate the information/item in question with no penalty.

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7. bumby+z92[view] [source] 2023-11-18 22:13:59
>>master+P32
>anyone could replicate the information/item in question with no penalty

Sure, I suppose someone could develop/copy something in parallel with no knowledge. But that's not really the case in the discussion here as it comes to former employees.

If you worked for Company A which uses a proprietary algorithm for trading and somehow created the same for Company B later, would you really expect a jury to think the two are unrelated? As stated above, the threshold is "more likely than not" that your work for Company B is related to knowing the trade secrets of Company A. If you had never worked for Company A, maybe, but again that's not the case here because a noncompete would never enter the picture.

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8. master+ce2[view] [source] 2023-11-18 22:39:31
>>bumby+z92
> Sure, I suppose someone could develop/copy something in parallel with no knowledge.

I mean that’s a tad disingenuous as to how it worked before patents. Patents were meant to dissuade others from copying inventions for a certain set period. It was much rarer to see independent development of the same technology (not that it didn’t happen).

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9. bumby+lf2[view] [source] 2023-11-18 22:46:39
>>master+ce2
We agree that it's a rare edge case. That's why the rationale of IP protection works. Before patents, important knowledge was lost because people didn't want to divulge it because they had no IP protection. Back then, everything was a trade/state secret.

I guess I'm not seeing the point made. If you agree it wasn't developed in parallel, you copied it from your previous employer. If it was their IP, you likely committed a civil wrong, and they can sue you. I can only see your point if you don't believe IP exists.

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10. master+ei2[view] [source] 2023-11-18 23:03:08
>>bumby+lf2
I wasn’t making any point. Just that that the initial patent example isn’t a good one to use.
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11. bumby+zA2[view] [source] 2023-11-19 00:35:08
>>master+ei2
u/akira2501 was providing a bad equivalency by saying both the company and employee has knowledge of a product, therefore either both (or neither) gets to claim it as property.

A patent is an example that shows why that is a bad principle. The point of a patent is to share knowledge, but it also gives claims of ownership (for a period) to only a specific party. So obviously "knowledge of a product/process" isn't the discriminator. The important portion of a patent that distinguishes what is owned is literally called its "claims." My point is that whether or not you have knowledge does not lay claim to ownership, contrary to u/akira2501's question/point.

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