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[return to "‘I've got nothing to hide’ and other misunderstandings of privacy (2007)"]
1. deepth+tl[view] [source] 2023-08-13 20:16:04
>>_____k+(OP)
The problem with the "I've got nothing to hide" argument is it's not "you" who decides what is "right" or "wrong". The entity doing the "spying" determines what is right or wrong. "You" might think "x" is ok, however the "spying" entity may have the opposite view. And it is the "spying" entity's opinion that matters, not yours, because it always them that have the power and authority in determining what is "right" or "wrong". Moreover, definitions change on what is "right" or "wrong".
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2. kypro+KD[view] [source] 2023-08-13 22:13:33
>>deepth+tl
I completely agree with this.

I live in the UK and when I raise concerns about government surveillance here people often say, "I've got nothing to hide".

I learnt of a case just this week where a guy on Reddit left a slightly controversial comment and ended up being charged with hate speech, lost his job and received hate abuse online for his opinion.

It was kinda crazy because "all" he said was that didn't care about a teen who died in police custody, specifically that this teen was a, "good for nothing, spice smoking, Toxteth monkey" (Toxteth being a fairly rough inner-city area of Liverpool).

The teen he was insulting was dead and unable to take offence, but the police officer on Reddit at the time took offence and decided to prosecute the guy anyway.

I'm bringing this up because I don't think most people in the UK realise this. Insulting people online or just saying something mildly offensive will often lead to prosecution. I mean just this week an autistic child got arrested for calling a lesbian police officer a lesbian here in the UK.

We all have something to hide when what's right and wrong is this arbitrary.

Legal notes:

I do not agree with the views of the Redditor referenced in my comment. I understand how someone may be offended by what he said, but disagree specifically with it being an offence to state an offensive position online.

I also do not agree with the behaviour autistic child mentioned in my comment. I understand that being autistic is not an excuse for being offensive. Again, I am only bringing this up because I do not believe it should be an offence to offend.

The offensive language used in my comment were direct quotes used specifically to make a point.

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3. bemuse+wT[view] [source] 2023-08-14 00:22:17
>>kypro+KD
> Insulting people online or just saying something mildly offensive will often lead to prosecution.

"will often": no, not at all. Could occasionally. You're not helping your argument by overstating this. The courts are not stuffed with people being fined for saying things that are "mildly offensive".

And nothing of what you're talking about is government surveillance. The police aren't the government, and the police do not routinely surveil the populace.

They wouldn't have the staff, for one thing! The police actually wanted to close the police station in the town in which I live -- population over 100,000 in the wider borough -- and replace it with what amounted to a kiosk and service from police stations five miles away in each direction.

And yes, really: for those viewers who persist in believing that the surveillance system in Hot Fuzz exists in reality... nope

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4. noneth+m81[view] [source] 2023-08-14 03:01:33
>>bemuse+wT
I have to ask… do you disagree with prosecuting offensive comments or not? You say it doesn’t happen often and they can’t enforce it. But do you think its a bad thing? Doesnt seem that way. The point is it shouldn’t be legal.
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5. bemuse+La1[view] [source] 2023-08-14 03:24:34
>>noneth+m81
Do I think offensive comments can be prosecuted in practice? Yeah, I do. Just as there are limits to free speech in the USA, there are comments that can have consequences.

The bar should be set high, and in general it is, but no, I don’t think hate speech is inherently free speech, for example.

The US way of doing things is not a) the only way of doing things, b) intrinsically the best way of doing things or c) trending in the right direction. Free speech is not something with a magical clear definition, and I think it goes without saying that we at least try to take incitement to actual race hate a little more seriously. We can set the bar differently; we have.

The problem in the UK is not a rash of prosecutions for offensive comments because despite what the parent comment says, they rarely come to trial. There is no enormous procession of these cases, and knobends are actually pretty free to be knobends here. Speech is free, newspapers don’t get raided when they happen to investigate the local police chief.

The problem at the moment is that the guidance is in flux, and too much time is wasted determining that something won’t be prosecuted. (Well, that’s the main problem. The secondary problem is the USA exporting its newest renewable resource, alt-right trolling, to every corner of the English speaking world, exhausting everyone’s patience.)

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6. sdfghs+yC1[view] [source] 2023-08-14 08:53:24
>>bemuse+La1
Right ok, so the reason why you're taking issue doesn't come from a principled place, but because you just so happen to believe these people should be prosecuted.
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7. bemuse+d12[view] [source] 2023-08-14 12:43:26
>>sdfghs+yC1
This is pure ad hominem and not remotely responding to anything I actually said, but whatever.

I was politely asked a question, I politely gave an answer and set some context. You’re just being rude.

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