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[return to "Japanese population falls in all 47 prefectures for the first time"]
1. methou+6v[view] [source] 2023-07-27 06:38:38
>>anigbr+(OP)
I was always hoping that given the fact that japanese population is dropping, they will want more foreigners in this Country. Yesterday marks my first anniversary in Japan. I love this Country and very keen to stay for naturalization based on my past experience with another non-free Country. People who has longer experience please correct me if I'm saying something stupid, what Japan stands out to me are:

* Overall it's a very affordable place and people are friendly by default.

* It is a free world Country if you care about freedom

* People take privacy seriously as parts of their daily matters, minimal data share. (unsure about the lucrative advertising business, please enligh)

* Comfortable level of tech, you can say it's low tech, but they got all the details right, and experience is great. (No aggresive behavior analysis, rare ily seen QR code for menu/ordering)

And some realities to offset the love: (Ordered low to high on impact, by personal feelings)

* Unfair compensations, a large majority of companies pays their employees in a Nenko System, basically your salary increments by the x years of service inside the company

* HIGH welfare tax, Nenkin will take away around 10% of your PRETAX income.

* Language, I love this Country and I would like to learn their culture and their language

* Etiquette, the Japanese way of daily routinal interactions are very much formulated, you can take vantage of that when you are fresh off boat and trying to do basic things like shopping and lodging. But say if your goal is to integrate into their society, it's going to be a long painful journey for the talented. I got a few friends spent better half of their lives in Japan who just gave up on becoming Japanese. One of which quitted so well that he occasionally violates social norms.

Bottom line: you will need a strong incentive to stay in Japan and start/move your family here, and your first experiences won't be good. So why would foreigners stay if it's next to impossible to become local. If you are doing well enough in the Country you are already within, then you definitely would miss it and go back.

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2. isykt+bA[view] [source] 2023-07-27 07:23:00
>>methou+6v
Japan is a totalitarian state, with the enforcement run by individuals. If you violate social norms, including not looking or sounding Japanese enough, you will be excluded.

You could become naturalized there, but you will never be Japanese, and you will never be treated as an equal.

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3. coldte+vC[view] [source] 2023-07-27 07:42:32
>>isykt+bA
And why should you? Is there some automatic right that one should have about being accepted into a foreign country and culture?
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4. zpeti+VD[view] [source] 2023-07-27 07:51:55
>>coldte+vC
Yes, that’s basically what the religion of the left believes.

No one should value their own culture and history, every culture should be open to being destroyed.

Except Islam for some reason. They get to keep their culture, otherwise you are an islamophobe.

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5. isykt+tE[view] [source] 2023-07-27 07:57:45
>>zpeti+VD
Culture is merely people and ideas. Good ideas should be preserved and remixed. Bad ideas should be relegated to the dustbin of history.

Promoting bullying and exclusion —- part and parcel to indigenous Japanese society — is a bad idea that should be relegated.

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6. coldte+HI[view] [source] 2023-07-27 08:35:34
>>isykt+tE
It's their country. You don't get to feel "bullied" for them not wanting foreigners there.

Would you feel "bullied" if an Amazon native population wants to keep their ways, and doesn't welcome you or anybody else coming over and wanting to join them?

Are people you don't know demanding to stay at your house "bullied" and "excluded" when you don't just let them in?

What if they're "good people"? Should they just get a room then? What if you have a couple of extra rooms you don't use?

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7. claudi+UM[view] [source] 2023-07-27 09:08:12
>>coldte+HI
>It's their country. You don't get to feel "bullied" for them not wanting foreigners there.

Why shouldn't I? You don't get to dictate how I "get" to feel. The very idea of racism and xenophobia is fundamentally offensive to me. As with the Amazon native population, I would not approve if they didn't let me in by virtue of some immutable attribute of mine such as my appearance.

So long as you make an effort to learn someone's culture, I don't think there's any justifictaion to exclude someone on the basis of the brute facts of their body or upbringing. Actions ought to matter far more.

I'm not aware of any moral theory that has been justified in academia or elsewhere which prescribes that such discrimination is permissible. This also is evidenced by the fact that many Japanese people claim to abhor racism while simultaneously practicing it against sections of their own population and other populations.

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8. coldte+4a3[view] [source] 2023-07-27 20:53:03
>>claudi+UM
>Why shouldn't I? You don't get to dictate how I "get" to feel.

No, but logic and society and experiences gets to dictate (even if in a slightly fuzzy what) what makes sense to feel.

Otherwise, feelings are like a*holes. Everybody has one.

>So long as you make an effort to learn someone's culture, I don't think there's any justifictaion to exclude someone on the basis of the brute facts of their body or upbringing. Actions ought to matter far more.

They don't want people merely having "made an effort to learn their culture" to immigrate in their country in any great numbers. They prefer people having grown into their culture - that is, their own people.

It's through this organic process (as opposed to some bro watching anime and watching documentaries about sushi and samurai swords who feels they've "made an effort to learn the culture") that they preserve their culture, their social cohesion, their customs, their safety, and other such aspects.

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9. claudi+qW4[view] [source] 2023-07-28 13:57:24
>>coldte+4a3
>as opposed to some bro watching anime and watching documentaries about sushi and samurai swords who feels they've "made an effort to learn the culture"

You've used this strawman previously in this thread; perhaps it would be better if you elucidated what elements of culture you're actually referring to.

>They don't want people merely having "made an effort to learn their culture" to immigrate in their country in any great numbers.

Who is "they"? I feel like you're ascribing very specific opinions to people who I suspect would be perfectly happy with law-abiding immigrants who don't hold parties at 3 a.m.

>They prefer people having grown into their culture - that is, their own people.

Is this even true? And to what degree? For example, there are cases of non-ethnically Japanese people who were born and raised in Japan, but still face challenges with discrimination, whereas immigrants of Japanese ancestry from America only seem to face issues with language. There's even a politician who immigrated to Japan and was elected by Japanese people: https://www.japan-zone.com/modern/tsurunen_marutei.shtml - in what way was someone who grew up in Japan preferred?

You may argue that these are minor examples and exceptions, but even one example is enough to show that these feelings are not based on logic or probability, but on mere gut feeling when one encounters someone different.

Cultural assimilation can happen to varying degrees and varying time frames with mixed results; the degree to which it is successful is also dependent on how accomodating or welcoming that particular culture is.

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