zlacker

[return to "Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium"]
1. c0l0+h3[view] [source] 2023-07-26 12:27:24
>>topshe+(OP)
I feel like I have to repeat this, since so much is at stake here, where it is about the preservation of the web as we know it today, at the peril of having it turned into yet another walled garden:

The only way around the dystopia this will lead to is to constantly and relentlessly shame and even harass all those involved in helping create it. The scolding in the issue tracker of that wretched "project" shall flow like a river, until the spirit of those pursuing it breaks, and the effort is disbanded.

And once the corporate hydra has regrown its head, repeat. Hopefully, enough practise makes those fighting the dystopia effective enough to one day topple over sponsoring and enabling organisations as a whole, instead of only their little initiatives leading down that path.

Not a pretty thing, but necessary.

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2. foobar+M4[view] [source] 2023-07-26 12:35:16
>>c0l0+h3
Is https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/... the best place to shame?
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3. jjoona+v6[view] [source] 2023-07-26 12:43:21
>>foobar+M4
Yoav Weiss is closing concern threads, calling them "spam."

Ben Wiser ( https://benwiser.com ) turned off comments altogether.

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4. qjx+4n[view] [source] 2023-07-26 13:53:03
>>jjoona+v6
Yoav Weiss has a blog post from 6 days ago on his website. https://blog.yoav.ws/

for a personal blog it has quite a lot of PR speak

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5. jjoona+4r[view] [source] 2023-07-26 14:07:45
>>qjx+4n
Oof. It does check, though, that the guy CoC-blocking all the github comments would have blog posts like the Professor Umbridge of the W3C.
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6. shadow+6J[view] [source] 2023-07-26 15:15:17
>>jjoona+4r
I think people like to take the easy way out of declaring those with a different mindset "evil." Everyone is the hero of their own story, and honestly there are multiple incompatible-but-internally-consistent models of how technologies can and should work. I think it's more useful to recognize these things than to write off a competing mindset (especially when the competing mindset is in a position of power).

Consider incentives from Google's standpoint. They want to provide users a safe and secure experience. They want to simplify maintenance of software and provide developers the ability to simplify maintenance of software (a problem simplified by chopping the unbounded set of possible user agents down to a blessed, vetted subset). They have the resources to make their site screen-reader compatible, so they're not concerned about damage that could be done to screen-readers because they'll just bless one and support it. And, of course, they implicitly trust themselves to do all this.

In that ecosystem, Weiss's viewpoint is completely reasonable. The old model of the web is old, and led to gestures broadly at all the bad things about the web today... fraud, users getting owned, CP, botnets, misinformation factories. I can definitely see the viewpoint where someone concludes "It's time for a new model, and this company has the resources to do it."

I don't agree with him (and in fact I think the idea will fail; I think Google actually overestimates its ability to provide an equivalently-good user experience to what we have now if they aren't leveraging the unpaid labor of other vendors putting the effort into making their own houses work with Google's house without Google even being aware of their work). But I think it's useful to wrap our heads around how one gets into that headspace without thinking oneself a monster.

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7. saurik+WZ[view] [source] 2023-07-26 16:13:14
>>shadow+6J
As they say: "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Wanting to fix the world by taking complete control of it is one of the most trivial examples of a plan that should be immediately labeled "evil", as, if nothing else, "absolute power corrupts absolutely".
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8. shadow+jj1[view] [source] 2023-07-26 17:22:11
>>saurik+WZ
This plan doesn't take complete control. It provides a mechanism for a web site to delegate trust on UA configuration authenticity to a third party, or even to itself via side-channel.

Nothing in the proposal requires the third party be Google. The proposal does decrease the control the user has over their own hardware, in the sense that it provides a channel for a site to decide the user-agent / hardware stack is the wrong pedigree to serve; that's not universally considered evil either (few people really get bent out of shape that you need a Nintendo Switch to use Nintendo Switch Online services).

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