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[return to "All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free"]
1. getmei+F5[view] [source] 2023-07-23 22:02:52
>>pessim+(OP)
This is what affirmative action should be... helping people out based on their individual situation, not because their skin color or gender.
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2. pessim+47[view] [source] 2023-07-23 22:14:19
>>getmei+F5
Affirmative action shouldn't ever have been a contest with prizes for the most unfortunate. It was sold as a way to fix the wrongs of slavery. Having been enslaved legally in the US is not a race, it's an atrocity.

The reason we should be paying for foster kids' college is because the state is their parent, so it's our responsibility. In a country that wasn't shit, regular people would be jealous of how kids who were wards of the state lived, and how well-raised they were. There's no clearer illustration of our values than the fact that children who, through no fault of their own, have become the responsibility of the state are treated like unwanted trash. The idea that a society like that could figure out how to ethically treat prisoners or immigrants is laughable.

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3. steve_+49[view] [source] 2023-07-23 22:25:00
>>pessim+47
I agree completely. Something so striking about the situation as well is that on balance, we have a staggering amount of wealth to share with the less fortunate.

Yet these are children, specifically, who deserve every opportunity we can afford them by default. Not “hopeless addicts” or some other group deemed not worth saving by so many of us, but people quite literally the epitome of worth saving. These people need every ounce of reassurance that we care and that they can integrate and function in society. That they deserve opportunity as anyone else does.

If we had to be self serving we could look at it like “each one of these people is statistically far more likely to be a burden on my own children in the future, so a small investment now could save a lot later”, but we seem to fail even in being selfish about it. I find this topic heart breaking.

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4. pessim+jc[view] [source] 2023-07-23 22:45:03
>>steve_+49
For me, state wards are one of the four metrics for judging the quality of a country.

Wards of the state: our responsibility, through no fault of their own.

Prisoners: our responsibility, their fault.

Immigrants: not our responsibility, but an indication of how well we can manage our economy. We should be able to put anybody who comes here to work.

Emigrants: we should let people leave who don't want to be here.

The first three are connected because there's no way to sustain providing anything for prisoners and immigrants that you don't provide for regular citizens. Wards of the state are the nation's children; there's nothing that normal citizens get that they shouldn't get. If they don't get anything, normal citizens are getting less than nothing.

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5. shric+Cd[view] [source] 2023-07-23 22:56:25
>>pessim+jc
> Prisoners: our responsibility, their fault.

What percentage (approximately) of prisoners in the United States would you categorize as "their fault" and not some product of their upbringing/situation?

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6. phpist+4f[view] [source] 2023-07-23 23:09:34
>>shric+Cd
At the end of the day, and this will be controversial it does not matter.

Prisons should be a place to house people that have been deemed unable to function in society until such time they can (sometimes that is never). This is not necessarily only violence but violent offenders should be the majority, but people that simply refuse to follow the rules of a society also degrade and are a danger to the society over all. We see this today in the way of rampant shoplifting, and car thefts/breakins taking place in some communities.

These are deemed "non-violent" so the offenders are just let go, however once these "non-violent" crimes reach an extreme level businesses close, people stop shopping in the area, insurance companies stop offering insurance, etc etc etc. That is all with out getting into the real psychological effects of having your property stolen and violated in that way.

At the end of the day I am not concerned about their upbringing/situation, I am concerned about their criminality

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7. buggle+Vh[view] [source] 2023-07-23 23:27:38
>>phpist+4f
Okay, but this logic is explicitly filtered through class in the US context. Some of the most antisocial members of our society are CEOs, politicians, and similar leaders. The damage they inflict on society often far exceeds that by individual acts of violence, fraud, thievery etc. Think about what has been wrought by Sacklers, the people running 3M, or those who led the country into war premised on lies.

Indeed, your example of how urban cores have been affected by wealth inequality and real estate speculation is a great example of this. San Francisco was a lovely city until landlords and real estate speculators turned it into a casino for gambling on housing and office space.

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8. phpist+oj[view] [source] 2023-07-23 23:37:56
>>buggle+Vh
>>>San Francisco was a lovely city until landlords and real estate speculators turned it into a casino for gambling on housing and office space.

before I even begin to address your others points, many I probably agree with we need to stop with this gas lighting narrative.

landlords and real estate speculators are not the villains of the San Francisco of the story. The city government (and the larger state government) is.

From the endless zoning regulations, environmental regulations, and building regulations that make it impossible to build affordable housing, and a decades long process to build any housing at all to the activist prosecutors refusing to prosecute crime in the city, to the "de-fund the police" movement that has put the local police dept at a huge understaffed situation.... Those are the root causes of the problems. not landlords and real estate speculators

You want to have an honest conversation about corporatism I am game, but you are starting out with disinformation and lies so....

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9. jncfhn+Xj[view] [source] 2023-07-23 23:41:42
>>phpist+oj
The city government is controlled by the land owning elite.
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10. phpist+tk[view] [source] 2023-07-23 23:46:06
>>jncfhn+Xj
Is the city government elected? How do you square support for democracy, and stating the city government is controlled by "the land owning elite"

I am told questioning elections is a conspiracy.

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11. jncfhn+Km[view] [source] 2023-07-24 00:06:28
>>phpist+tk
Well let me also tell you that proactively playing the victim and daring people to challenge you is cringey and gross.

I don’t really like our democratic republic setup personally. I would prefer a popular vote based democracy for presidential elections with federal holiday voting and no ID requirements. Same for city elections although the problems on that scale are different.

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12. phpist+Cp[view] [source] 2023-07-24 00:33:59
>>jncfhn+Km
Well good news, The local elections in San Fran I believe are already your dream.. How is that working out?

I really like our electoral college system, believe we need stronger ID requirements to vote, and believe we need to repeal the 17th amendment returning more power to the states, removing it from the federal government.

I will agree with one of your reforms, that of a voting holiday, though i would prefer instead to just have Voting week, starting on Sunday, ending on Sat, with no state allowed to release results until the next Monday eliminating the 24 hour news cycle on "election day" and eliminating problems like "voting day bugs" or "rain outs" etc. and the constant battle for "news" organizations to "call" an election 2 seconds into the voting

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