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[return to "Web Environment Integrity API Proposal"]
1. quenix+Wg[view] [source] 2023-07-21 19:26:32
>>reacto+(OP)
What's strange to me is that the main author of the spec -- Ben Wiser -- seems to be against closed, wall-garden paradigms as he has written in a blog post "I just spent £700 to have my own app on my iPhone" [1]. In the post, he laments the state of the App Store monopoly on iOS and ponders returning to Android for the app installation freedom.

How can he reconciliate these views with this spec, which he is the main author of? Surely Ben sees the parallels?

He writes: "Apple’s strategy with this is obvious, and it clearly works, but it still greatly upsets me that I couldn’t just build an app with my linux laptop. If I want the app to persist for longer than a month, and to make it easy for friends to install, I had to pay $99 for a developer account. Come on Apple, I know you want people to use the app story but this is just a little cruel. I basically have to pay $99 a year now just to keep using my little app."

It's honestly comical and a little sad.

[1]: http://benwiser.com/blog/I-just-spent-%C2%A3700-to-have-my-o...

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2. jefftk+Ab1[view] [source] 2023-07-22 00:23:57
>>quenix+Wg
A good explanation of how he would reconcile his proposal and the ideas he's previously expressed: https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/...
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3. saagar+4l1[view] [source] 2023-07-22 02:04:06
>>jefftk+Ab1
This just seems like a generic “oh people might hate this proposal here’s a place where we mention this”, not a response to the question asked above.
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4. Thorre+ZK1[view] [source] 2023-07-22 07:09:09
>>saagar+4l1
Why isn't it a response to the question above asked? The question above seems to be saying that this API will be used to create walled gardens; the linked part of the design is about how to prevent the API from being used to create walled gardens.

Disclosure: I work at Google but not on this.

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5. mackie+0y2[view] [source] 2023-07-22 15:34:29
>>Thorre+ZK1
Unfortunately, what you link doesn't answer how they will prevent it being used to create walled gardens.

It's just an open question, and as such, it does seem it's an afterthought, when it should be front and center if anyone care for an open web.

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6. Thorre+I24[view] [source] 2023-07-23 05:47:22
>>mackie+0y2
Wouldn't a holdback prevent it from being used to create walled gardens?
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7. deleha+Sc4[view] [source] 2023-07-23 08:15:12
>>Thorre+I24
I doubt it. As explained by GitHub user tbrandirali, the stated goals seem to be inherently contradictory. Quoting in part:

"This internal contradiction is further demonstrated by the fact that the proposed solution to prevent misuse by websites - holdbacks - is to simply sabotage the functionality of the system itself, by making attestation probabilistic. This is not a workable solution to the problem: if the holdback rate of requests is low enough, the denial of service to legitimate users will simply be a cost of business that websites will accept; if instead it is high enough, websites will not use this system as it does not provide meaningful enough information, even for analytics purposes, due to the high uncertainty. There is no goldilocks zone where this system is useful but not open to abuse by implementer websites. You're either implementing a feature that can - and most likely will - be used by websites to exclude unattested clients, or you're implementing a useless feature."

https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/...

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