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[return to "Web Environment Integrity API Proposal"]
1. saurik+L5[view] [source] 2023-07-21 18:35:31
>>reacto+(OP)
This is pretty much the inevitable end-game of the web, in no small part funded by ad-based business models (as the analog gap pretty much destroys most attempts to use this stuff to do copy protection) and enabled by developers who have insisted we shove as much difficult-to-implement functionality (by which I am talking about CSS complex stuff, not powerful-but-easy-to-code APIs for OS-level access) into the browser as possible.

The result: there is now effectively one dominating web browser run by an ad company who nigh unto controls the spec for the web itself and who is finally putting its foot down to decide that we are all going to be forced to either used fully-locked down devices or to prove that we are using some locked-down component of our otherwise unlocked device to see anyone's content, and they get to frame it as fighting for the user in the spec draft as users have a "need" to prove their authenticity to websites to get their free stuff.

(BTW, Brave is in the same boat: they are also an ad company--despite building ad blocking stuff themselves--and their product managers routinely discuss and even quote Brendan Eich talking about this same kind of "run the browser inside of trusted computing" as their long-term solution for preventing people blocking their ads. The vicious irony: the very tech they want to use to protect them is what will be used to protect the status quo from them! The entire premise of monetizing with ads is eventually either self-defeating or the problem itself.)

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2. tentac+H9[view] [source] 2023-07-21 18:52:36
>>saurik+L5
> who is finally putting their foot down and deciding that we are all going to be forced to either used fully-locked down devices

The person who wrote the proposal[0] is from Google. All the authors of the proposal are from Google[1].

I've been thinking carefully about this comment, but I really don't know what to say. It's absolutely heartbreaking watching something I really care about die by a thousand cuts; how do we protest this? Google will just strong-arm their implementation through Chromium and, when banks, Netflix & co. start using it, they've effectively cornered other engines into implementing it.

This isn't new to them. They did it with FLoC, which most people were opposed to[2]. The most they did was FLoC was deprecate it and re-release it under a different name.

The saving grace here might be that Firefox won't implement the proposal.

[0]: https://github.com/RupertBenWiser [1]: https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/... [2]: >>26344013

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3. enumjo+0g[view] [source] 2023-07-21 19:21:55
>>tentac+H9
> The saving grace here might be that Firefox won't implement the proposal.

As others have said, FF doesn't have a lot of leverage left to influence those type of decisions, but Safari might. Not sure what their position is on this proposal.

The one pager has a section on stakeholder feedback [0], but doesn't name them for some reason.

[0] https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/...

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4. aposta+7E[view] [source] 2023-07-21 21:08:52
>>enumjo+0g
Looking at it in terms of leverage and market-share is a huge mistake that Mozilla keeps making. Mozilla doesn't have a platform like Google does. What exactly is Mozilla even competing for? Popularity?

They should hunker down and make the best browser they can, implementing their best web. It worked 20 years ago, and in many ways the circumstances are the same. We have tech monopolies proposing ludicrous "content security" mechanisms. Where would Mozilla have been if they tried making some sort of half baked "less evil" form of Microsoft Janus DRM[1]?

People are going to get sick of how intrusive DRM is becoming, and there should be an alternative waiting for them.

Every person who has content they thought they purchased "expire" and be erased from their device, or who can no longer use their expensive projector after the latest mandatory update.

I evangelized heavily for Firefox in the 1.x days. People were sick of IE6, and were glad to have Firefox. I worked at a computer store and probably converted 100+ people.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janus_(DRM)

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5. wmf+jG[view] [source] 2023-07-21 21:19:26
>>aposta+7E
What exactly is Mozilla even competing for? Popularity?

Mozilla's revenue is proportional to usage so they need enough users to cover their development costs.

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6. 20afte+hV[view] [source] 2023-07-21 22:32:28
>>wmf+jG
If only the wikimedia foundation would fork firefox, then the open web might have a chance.

Wikimedia is honestly the only organization with the right ideology, the right business model, and enough money to do something like this sustainably.

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