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1. Chicag+m9[view] [source] 2023-07-05 17:40:08
>>tim_sw+(OP)
From a layman's perspective when it comes to cutting edge AI, I can't help but be a bit turned off by some of the copy. It seems it goes out of its way to use purposefully exhuberant language as a way to make the risks seem even more significant, just so as an offshoot it implies that the technology being worked on is so advanced. I'm trying to understand why it rubs me particularly the wrong way here, when, frankly, it is just about the norm anywhere else? (see tesla with FSD, etc.)
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2. goneho+gf[view] [source] 2023-07-05 17:58:33
>>Chicag+m9
The extinction risk from unaligned supterintelligent AGI is real, it's just often dismissed (imo) because it's outside the window of risks that are acceptable and high status to take seriously. People often have an initial knee-jerk negative reaction to it (for not crazy reasons, lots of stuff is often overhyped), but that doesn't make it wrong.

It's uncool to look like an alarmist nut, but sometimes there's no socially acceptable alarm and the risks are real: https://intelligence.org/2017/10/13/fire-alarm/

It's worth looking at the underlying arguments earnestly, you can with an initial skepticism but I was persuaded. Alignment is also been something MIRI and others have been worried about since as early as 2007 (maybe earlier?) so it's also a case of a called shot, not a recent reaction to hype/new LLM capability.

Others have also changed their mind when they looked, for example:

- https://twitter.com/repligate/status/1676507258954416128?s=2...

- Longer form: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/kAmgdEjq2eYQkB5PP/douglas-ho...

For a longer podcast introduction to the ideas: https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/116...

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3. jonath+tU[view] [source] 2023-07-05 20:49:31
>>goneho+gf
> The extinction risk from unaligned supterintelligent AGI is real, it's just often dismissed (imo) because it's outside the window of risks that are acceptable and high status to take seriously.

No. It’s not taken seriously because it’s fundamentally unserious. It’s religion. Sometime in the near future this all powerful being will kill us all by somehow grabbing all power over the physical world by being so clever to trick us until it is too late. This is literally the plot to a B-movie. Not only is there no evidence for this even existing in the near future, there’s no theoretical understanding how one would even do this, nor why someone would even hook it up to all these physical systems. I guess we’re supposed to just take it on faith that this Forbin Project is going to just spontaneously hack its way into every system without anyone noticing.

It’s bullshit. It’s pure bullshit funded and spread by the very people that do not want us to worry about real implications of real systems today. Care not about your racist algorithms! For someday soon, a giant squid robot will turn you into a giant inefficient battery in a VR world, or maybe just kill you and wear your flesh as to lure more humans to their violent deaths!

Anyone that takes this seriously, is the exact same type of rube that fell for apocalyptic cults for millennia.

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4. arisAl+HV[view] [source] 2023-07-05 20:54:42
>>jonath+tU
What you say is extremely unscientific. If you believe science and logic go hand in hand then:

A) We are developing AI right now and itnisngetting better

B) we do not know how exactly these things work because most of them are black boxer

C) we do not know if something goes wrong how to stop it.

The above 3 things are factual truth.

Now your only argument here could be that there is 0 risk whatsoever. This claim is totally unscientific because you are predicting 0 risk in an unknown system that is evolving.

It's religious yes. But vice versa. The Cult of venevolent AI god is religious not the other way around. There is some kind of inner mysterious working in people like you and Marc Andersen that pipularized these ideas but pmarca is clearly money biased here.

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5. c_cran+PZ[view] [source] 2023-07-05 21:14:10
>>arisAl+HV
We do know the answer to C. Pull the plug, or plugs.
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6. ben_w+jh1[view] [source] 2023-07-05 22:49:03
>>c_cran+PZ
Things we've either not successfully "pulled the plug" on despite the risks, and in some cases despite concerted military actions to attempt a plug-pull, and in other cases that it seems like it should only take willpower to achieve and yet somehow we still haven't: Carbon based fuels, cocaine, RBMK-class nuclear reactors, obesity, cigarettes.

Things we pulled the plug on eventually, while dragging it out, include: leaded fuel, asbestos, radium paint, treating above-ground atomic testing as a tourist attraction.

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7. reveli+p33[view] [source] 2023-07-06 13:04:21
>>ben_w+jh1
Pull the plug is meant literally. As in, turn off the power to the AI. Carbon based fuels let alone cocaine don't have off switches. The situation just isn't analogous at all.
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8. ben_w+w83[view] [source] 2023-07-06 13:29:14
>>reveli+p33
I assumed literally, and yet the argument applies: we have not been able to stop those things even when using guns to shoot people doing them. The same pressures that keep people growing the plants, processing them, transporting it, selling it, buying it, consuming it, there are many things a system — intelligent or otherwise — can motivate people to keep the lights on.

There were four reactors in Chernobyl plant, the exploding one was 1986, the others were shut down in 1991, 1996, and 2000.

There's no plausible way to guess at the speed of change from a misaligned AI, can you be confident that 14 years isn't enough time to cause problems?

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9. reveli+9o4[view] [source] 2023-07-06 18:06:02
>>ben_w+w83
I mean, as pointed out by a sibling comment, the reason it's so hard to shut those things down is that they benefit a lot of people and there's huge organic demand. Even the morality is hotly debated, there's no absolute consensus on the badness of those things.

Whereas, an AI that tries to kill everyone or take over the world or something, that seems pretty explicitly bad news and everyone would be united in stopping it. To work around that, you have to significantly complicate the AI doom scenario to be one in which a large number of people think the AI is on their side and bringing about a utopia but it's actually ending the world, or something like that. But, what's new? That's the history of humanity. The communists, the Jacobins, the Nazis, all thought they were building a better world and had to have their "off switch" thrown at great cost in lives. More subtly the people advocating for clearly civilization-destroying moves like banning all fossil fuels or net zero by 2030, for example, also think they're fighting on the side of the angels.

So the only kind of AI doom scenario I find credible is one in which it manages to trick lots of powerful people into doing something stupid and self-destructive using clever sounding words. But it's hard to get excited about this scenario because, eh, we already have that problem x100, except the misaligned intelligences are called academics.

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10. ben_w+5b7[view] [source] 2023-07-07 12:54:50
>>reveli+9o4
> mean, as pointed out by a sibling comment, the reason it's so hard to shut those things down is that they benefit a lot of people and there's huge organic demand. Even the morality is hotly debated, there's no absolute consensus on the badness of those things

And mine is that this can also be true of a misaligned AI.

It doesn't have to be like Terminator, it can be slowly doing something we like and where we overlook the downsides until it's too late.

Doesn't matter if that's "cure cancer" but the cure has a worse than cancer side effect that only manifests 10 years later, or if it's a mere design for a fusion reactor where we have to build it ourselves and that leads to weapons proliferation, or if it's A/B testing the design for a social media website to make it more engaging and it gets so engaging that people choose not to hook up IRL and start families.

> But, what's new? That's the history of humanity. The communists, the Jacobins, the Nazis, all thought they were building a better world and had to have their "off switch" thrown at great cost in lives.

Indeed.

I would agree that this is both more likely and less costly than "everyone dies".

But I'd still say it's really bad and we should try to figure out in advance how to minimise this outcome.

> except the misaligned intelligences are called academics

Well, that's novel; normally at this point I see people saying "corporations", and very rarely "governments".

Not seen academics get stick before, except in history books.

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