zlacker

>>robbie+(OP)
The web went in the wrong direction when we abandoned the initial concepts of user agents, which was that the browser has the ultimate choice of what to render and how. That concept, transferred to today's world of apps would simply mean that any client like Apollo is essentially a browser locked on Reddit's website, parsing HTML (which has the role of an API) and rendering the content in a native interface. As long as the user can access the HTML for free, they should be able to use any application (a browser or a special app) and render the content however they wish.

Unfortunately with today's SPA apps we don't even get the HTML directly, but with the recent resurgence of server-side rendering we may soon be able to get rendered HTML with one HTTP request. And then the only hurdles will be legal.

>>danije+KI
> Unfortunately with today's SPA apps we don't even get the HTML directly

It works the other way: with today's SPAs the API (that powers the frontend) is exposed for us to use directly, without going through the HTML - just use your browser's devtools to inspect the network/fetch/XHR requests and build your own client.

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On an related-but-unrelated note: I don't know why so many website companies aren't allowing users to pay to use their own client: it's win-win-win: the service operator gets new revenue to make-up for the lack of ads in third-party clients, it doesn't cost the operator anything (because their web-services and APIs are already going to be well-documented, right?), and makes the user/consumer-base happy because they can use a specialized client.

Where would Twitter be today if we could continue to use Tweetbot and other clients with our own single-user API-key or so?

>>DaiPlu+TU
> inspect the network/fetch/XHR requests and build your own client

The purpose of an API is the agreement, more than the access. You can always reverse engineer something, but your users won't be too happy when things randomly stop working, whenever reddit chooses.

>>nomel+EZ
Total non-issue. If it breaks, people will fix it. There's people out there maintaining immense ad filter lists and executable countermeasures against ad blocker detection. Someone somewhere will care enough to fix it.

>>matheu+fe1
> There's people out there maintaining immense ad filter lists and executable countermeasures against ad blocker detection.

This is not a useful comparison. A failure of an ad blocker means you don't see an ad while using the service. Big deal. A failure of a reverse engineered glorified web scraper is that the app stops working, completely, for all users of the client, at once, until someone fixes it.

Yes, it could be democratized, but most users wouldn't understand any of this, and say "ugh, this app never works". It would be a user experience that reddit could make as terrible as they wanted.

>>nomel+0n1
It absolutely is a useful comparison. It's obvious that this software depends on unstable interfaces that will eventually break. I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about the sheer effort it takes to create such things. Such efforts are absolutely in the realm of existence today. Projects like nitter and teddit exist. Teddit is on the frontpage of HN right now no doubt in reaction to this thread. There's probably one for HN too, I just haven't found HN to be hostile enough to search for it.

Honestly I don't really care about "most users". To me they're only relevant as entries in the anonymity set. As long as we have access to such powerful software, I'm happy. I'm not out to save everyone.

>>matheu+iq1
> I was talking about the sheer effort it takes to create such things

I understand what you're saying, but I think this is the key to my point:

> It would be a user experience that reddit could make as terrible as they wanted.

It's an unfair cat and mouse game. Yes, effort could be made to fix it each time, but, if reddit chose, they could force everyone into the "most users" group, when the only app works for 5 minutes a day, and people get bored, because they decided to randomize page elements.