zlacker

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1. yousif+98[view] [source] 2023-04-21 07:20:58
>>asim+(OP)
I will add, the fasting from food and water is the easy part. The more important fast is fasting from everything that is bad -- cursing, backbiting, lying, etc -- and from your own desires. All these things are things you shouldn't do anyway, but this is a time to refresh commitment to not doing those things.

As the Quran says: "Oh, you who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that you may learn piety and righteousness" [Quran 2:183]

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2. tokyol+kz1[view] [source] 2023-04-21 16:33:13
>>yousif+98
> and from your own desires

As a non-religious gay I probably wasn't invited anyway. But this kind of thinking is what leads conservatives to so much repression and hate. The idea that the wants and needs of your body are something which the mind must actively fight. That the scratchy, ill-fitting wool sweater of your culture is something that you must keep on at all costs. And it leads to resentment of people who are not under such self-imposed restrictions.

There is a reason in queer culture that 'shadiness' is a bigger sin than anger. Shadiness is what happens when someone represses their true feelings. Those feelings don't go away though, they just resurface in other unexpected and non-adaptive ways.

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3. hd4+bH1[view] [source] 2023-04-21 17:00:51
>>tokyol+kz1
That sounds like you're coming at this from a similar standpoint to one of the other major religions which I would rather not mention as I don't want to start a religious war here.

In Islam you're not hated or judged for what you call your true feelings. You are however instructed to gain mastery over those feelings and make them subordinate to you rather than the other way around. Fasting is one of the things that can help with that. As for feeling invited, honestly I get why you may think that (because a lot of Muslims do a frankly terrible job of marketing) but that's not how Islam looks at people, it doesn't look at people as unchanging monoliths, instead you are seen as a blank slate and whatever actions you do impact your life here and the life hereafter. Basically your inner reality is between you and God. Islam fully understands people have all sorts of desires, lusts, etc, the thing is in Islam you aren't cursed for having those desires, but for acting upon them rather than gaining control over them. HTH.

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4. abeppu+zR1[view] [source] 2023-04-21 17:42:32
>>hd4+bH1
> you aren't cursed for having those desires, but for acting upon them

That sounds exactly as repressive and hateful that other major religion, as well as historical laws which punished homosexual acts in many western countries. You have highlighted the difference between our desires and our behavior, but you seem to deliberately avoid acknowledging that straight people are permitted an institution in which their desires can be met within constraints, but gay people are not.

"You're invited to participate in our faith so long as you scrupulously act like someone else for your whole life" sounds a lot like an unvitation.

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5. hd4+sW1[view] [source] 2023-04-21 18:04:15
>>abeppu+zR1
Islam pretty much is a framework for how you deal with God and for how your life here and hereafter will be according to that relationship. That's all it is.

You also acknowledge that even straight people have constraints in Islam, i.e. no sleeping around etc, why not also argue that it's somehow terrible that straight people have to repress their desire to fornicate?

"You're invited to participate in our faith so long as you turn your focus away from your base desires and towards God and the hereafter"

You're insinuating that you're being targeted or singled out whereas Islam "blanket-bans" entire categories of what are considered regressive behaviours such as overeating, you're not being targeted here, so can you stop with the victim complex please? Islam is as against environmental destruction, abuse of animals or overeating as much as it is against what it sees as wrongful sexual desire. What I feel like is being missed for the trees here is that the "holisticness" of Islam. It's against what it sees as destructive behavior, without prejudicing or singling out any specific group. Look at the higher purpose here.

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6. loo+ZA2[view] [source] 2023-04-21 21:07:51
>>hd4+sW1
You've buried the lede that the core framework does see homosexual behavior as "wrongful sexual desire", "regressive behaviour".

You can accept that or not, but it's disingenuous to equate asking gays never to have sexual or romantic relationships, to asking non-gay people just to curb excess.

That's not an equal imposition, it feels like self-equivocating ad-hominem to read "you're not being targeted here, so can you stop with the victim complex please?"

If you agree that it's better for gay people to never experience intimacy, please just say so, without labelling the concern (that gay people may feel less invited) as ridiculous

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7. nashas+UA3[view] [source] 2023-04-22 06:49:43
>>loo+ZA2
Someone who has a thirst for illicit relationship with women must also refrain from doing so.

Forbidding a person from lusting anyone other than spouse whether they like it or not is no different than forbidding a person from having gay desires. And no amount of self identification can label that inhumane.

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8. loo+Cj5[view] [source] 2023-04-22 20:30:55
>>nashas+UA3
Under your axioms, it may be equivalent, but I think they're mistaken.

Orientation is not a choice, and is orthogonal to identification.

I believe that same-sex relationships can be as profoundly fulfilling, enriching, and pro-social as heterosexual relationships.

That marrying a straight woman with a gay man is profoundly unfulfilling for both.

And that denying a class of people something so profound, freely enjoyed by everyone else, and which does not harm anyone else, can indeed be seen as inhumane.

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9. nashas+d46[view] [source] 2023-04-23 05:22:56
>>loo+Cj5
You say orientation isn't a choice even though bisexuals at least establish it as their free choice for relationship. Fine. Even if you correctly claim that some people may have an immutable orientation, why would you in your brilliant and far reaching wisdom think it would be inhumane for the same person to be celibate from that orientation? And further think it is inhumane for the person to engage in a relationship of another orientation?

I don't believe for a second any person has this immutable orientation, straight or gay. And likewise, I don't believe it is inhumane for a person to avoid a relationship that is illegitimate. Trying to argue otherwise is like arguing the color blue can also be seen as red.

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10. loo+Sa6[view] [source] 2023-04-23 06:43:42
>>nashas+d46
I am not bisexual, but tried to be. The choice wasn't available.

Have you felt strong attraction for both sexes? If not, have you tried to?

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11. nashas+hU8[view] [source] 2023-04-24 06:56:57
>>loo+Sa6
If you tried to feel attraction but could not, you might need help on understanding what attraction is. Until you do, you won't know what love and harm is.
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