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[return to "“Rust is safe” is not some kind of absolute guarantee of code safety"]
1. Pragma+b8[view] [source] 2022-10-02 15:12:48
>>rvz+(OP)
I’ve been using Rust for a while, and I’m so, so tired of hearing this argument.

Yes, we know. We get it. Rust is not an absolute guarantee of safety and doesn’t protect us from all the bugs. This is obvious and well-known to anyone actually using Rust.

At this point, the argument feels like some sort of ideological debate happening outside the realm of actually getting work done. It feels like any time someone says that Rust defends against certain types of safety errors, someone feels obligated to pop out of the background and remind everyone that it doesn’t protect against every code safety issue.

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2. Yoric+bn[view] [source] 2022-10-02 16:35:27
>>Pragma+b8
It's really weird.

I keep seeing claims that Rust users are insufferable and claim that Rust protects against everything. But, as someone who has started using Rust around 0.4, I have never seen these insufferable users.

I imagine that they lurk on some communities?

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3. 3a2d29+6s[view] [source] 2022-10-02 17:02:05
>>Yoric+bn
Okay, just to fact check this. I am a fan of Rust, but pretending there aren't these aggressive rust users is a bit putting your head in the sand.

Like any language that has very cool features, there are people that take that tool as not a tool but a religion.

You can even look in my comment history and see people arguing with me when I say I was a rust fan, but memory safety isn't a requirement in some areas of programming. One person made it there mission to convince me that can't possibly be the case and in (in my example of video games) that any memory bug crashes and game and will make users quit and leave.

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4. maxbon+et[view] [source] 2022-10-02 17:08:00
>>3a2d29+6s
I, too, have not encountered these toxic Rust fanboys. I don't believe my head is in the sand. I do regularly see people degrading Rust and it's community, and so am convinced these toxic Rust fanboys are largely a myth based on uncharitable interpretations of otherwise reasonable statements. I think people often read "I advocate for the deprecation of all C/C++ codebases" into the statement "Rust is a 'safe' language, for a certain meaning of that term," but I don't think it's actually common to advocate for such a deprecation outside of security-critical applications.

I feel like it's a defensive reaction, that people feel like Rust is seeking to obviate arcane skills they've built over the course of their careers. Which I don't think is true, I think there will always be a need for such skills and that Rust has no mission to disrupt other language communities, but I can understand the reaction.

> You can even look in my comment history

Is this the thread you're referring to?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32878868

Because I genuinely don't see what you're talking about. No one seems to "make it their mission" and no one seems to be arguing for Rust in particular, as much as this category of languages.

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5. moldav+AA[view] [source] 2022-10-02 17:48:07
>>maxbon+et
I've seen both sides of this, as a Rust user and as a Go user.

Rust users are generally friendly to one another, and to people who are interested in Rust. Hoever, some Rust users are toxic when talking to people outside the community or to people who disagree.

That's why a lot of us (in the Rust community) don't notice it; we spend most of the time inside our own community talking to each other and being friendly to each other.

This is a trait common to any bubble or insular community whether it be about politics, religion, economics, or whatever. It's fairly easy to recognize once you get in the habit of dis-identifying with your own side.

There's also a phenomenon in human psychology where we tend to forgive "our side's" misbehavior, presumably because it's in service to a higher ideal and therefore forgivable. It's the difference between "passionately spreading the good word" and "aggressive evangelism", two views of the same action. After learning about this I've even seen it in myself, though hopefully I've learned to counteract it a bit.

Note that this isn't unique to Rust, other languages have this too to an extent.

It's something I really hope we can leave behind, because it's hurting an otherwise beneficial message that Rust can bring a new tradeoff that is favorable for a lot of situations.

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6. Yoric+qW[view] [source] 2022-10-02 20:10:10
>>moldav+AA
Fair enough.
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