zlacker

[return to "“Rust is safe” is not some kind of absolute guarantee of code safety"]
1. kweing+O7[view] [source] 2022-10-02 15:10:51
>>rvz+(OP)
Classic Linus.

From the closing paragraph, I feel like he’s under the impression that Rust-advocating contributors are putting Rust’s interests (e.g. “legitimizing it” by getting it in the kernel) above the kernel itself.

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2. sidlls+2a[view] [source] 2022-10-02 15:24:45
>>kweing+O7
They probably are, in many cases. Rust’s community, in aggregate, have developed a reputation (earned, in my opinion). It’s too bad that the community don’t follow the leaders’ example in this regard. There are some quality, level-headed Rust advocates. They appear to be the minority.
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3. mustac+1e[view] [source] 2022-10-02 15:46:54
>>sidlls+2a
At least they don't go around slandering programming language communities.

If we're going to be serious about who is being toxic, it's definitely Linus in this thread. Guy makes first mistake (by a very broad interpretation of "mistake". Perhaps "misunderstanding"?). Linus goes nuclear. And while his reasoning is sound, his argumentation cycles between threats, bad-faith arguments, and just plain old yelling.

What some people don't understand is that the Linux kernel isn't 'led' in any meaningful sense. But I suppose some projects don't need actual leadership? I once was recommended a Metallica documentary, because "It's amusing to see what emotionally stunted 40-50 year olds who have never had anyone tell them 'No' since 18 will do." That's the Linus vibe -- somehow we've limped along to here. Seriously, read the rust/rust-lang issues/RFCs. Those people sound like grownups contrasted to this.

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4. h2odra+Ag[view] [source] 2022-10-02 16:02:02
>>mustac+1e
Threats? Slander? Do you feel that you're "speaking for a community" here?
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5. mustac+6k[view] [source] 2022-10-02 16:21:27
>>h2odra+Ag
Heck no! And I can't imagine anyone thinking I was?

The threat is pretty clear? "If Rust people don't get this, we will have to part ways." This is an ultimatum? It's crazy girlfriend/boyfriend material? It's ridiculous after one contributor tries something that Linus thinks won't work in the kernel. Ridiculous. Just say no.

The slander as well? "Rust’s community, in aggregate, have developed a reputation." And you know what? The C/C++/Zig/Nim/Haskell/Clojure communities have developed a reputation too, but, gosh, I don't talk about it because I know labeling groups isn't helpful/is completely non-technical.

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6. sidlls+jB[view] [source] 2022-10-02 17:51:14
>>mustac+6k
The difference is these communities don’t have advocates spamming every technical thing they can find crapping on everyone else and proclaiming their favored language/tech to be indisputably superior in every case.
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7. mustac+XE[view] [source] 2022-10-02 18:13:25
>>sidlls+jB
If you don't think the Rust "community" receives the same sort of spam arguments from anti-Rust folks, then you're kidding yourself. And, yes, I completely understand that such arguments are super annoying. But the wrong response in my view is to answer with another stupid argument ("The Rust community is the problem.")

Was Wedson acting in an untoward way here that in some way exemplifies something significant about the Rust community? No, not really. So, yeah, I think your comment above is a pointless low blow, cheap shot, an excuse to act nasty about some super annoying Rust comment you probably read months ago. And it just sounds like whining to me.

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