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[return to "Queen Elizabeth II has died"]
1. PaulDa+db[view] [source] 2022-09-08 18:12:41
>>xd+(OP)
I was born in the UK, in 1963. Because of my step-father's love of first-wave UK punk, the first thing I did on hearing this news was to play the Sex Pistol's "God Save the Queen".

It is remarkable how much the Queen's standing has improved during the time since that song (1977). My (UK) family are (as far as I know) staunch republicans, but the last couple of decades have seen all of us soften our disgust with the monarchy as Elizabeth represented it. We might still want the whole concept destroyed, but there is nothing close to the vehemence of Johnny Rotten (Lydon)'s lyrics from that song.

Nevertheless, that is how a bunch of people felt in 1977, and as our memories become even more gilded and rose goggled now that she has died, it may be worth remembering those feelings too:

God save the queen / The fascist regime / They made you a moron / A potential H bomb / God save the queen / She's not a human being / and There's no future / And England's dreaming

These days, I think even us staunch republicans/anti-monarchists would begrudgingly admit that "She could have been worse" and that she actually was a human being.

Maybe Charles will have the guts to end it all, but it doesn't seem likely.

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2. mabil+kJ[view] [source] 2022-09-08 20:29:08
>>PaulDa+db
> We might still want the whole concept destroyed

I am not well versed about republic vs. monarchy apart from my limited experience, which might be more than many people, but not as valuable as someone that have studied that and can pitch in. Coming from BR, have lived in AU, NZ, and UK, and traveled a lot, I would take monarchy over a republic any day, extrapolating on that, and just looking at the current state of affairs of republic countries vs the ones coming from monarchy, which ones look in a better state, and makes you want to move to, live in and raise your family?

And mad props to UK for keeping --relatively to others-- really well so far.

Thank you and Rest in Peace.

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3. scaram+451[view] [source] 2022-09-08 22:40:00
>>mabil+kJ
The UK is in a shocking state of decline, so not sure what metrics you are using there?

Widespread unemployment, hunger, life expectancies in decline, 1,000 people are dying a month from the botched "response" to covid. Hundreds of thousands in early graves due to same covid response, and before that already over a hundred thousand in early graves as a result of austerity. The political system seems to have completely collapsed and be unable to respond to crises or meet even the most basic survival needs of its population.

I wouldn't lay this on the feet of the monarchy, cos the elected officials seem to be the main cause of it.

But which republics are you looking at? Because I live in one, and I can't imagine moving back to the UK any time soon. Again, I don't think that's because it's a republic, it just happens to have a basically functioning political an economic system that hasn't (yet) failed.

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4. jbjbjb+881[view] [source] 2022-09-08 22:58:18
>>scaram+451
I think you’re overstating the decline. But yes too much democracy in Brexit and a badly designed democracy with the first past the post system. Widespread apathy to politics doesn’t help either.
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5. scaram+t91[view] [source] 2022-09-08 23:08:04
>>jbjbjb+881
Among peer countries it is uniquely non-resilient and unable to respond to the challenges it faces. Even with the covid disaster, it was very lucky that it has a fantastic institution like the NHS, which politicians have, so far, been unable to completely cripple or dominate. And also lucky to still have a serious pharma industry, literally the very industry that is needed to respond to a pandemic crisis. So you'd think given that fact, plus it's huge wealth, it would have had to have had one of the best COVID responses in the world?

The paradox of the UK is that it has a lot of wealth, many institutions and industries which still function and have not yet collapsed. But the political system itself has completely collapsed, and the economy is faltering badly.

The US is in a similar situation. But, of course, still leading the world in many regards.

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