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[return to "AlphaFold reveals the structure of the protein universe"]
1. dalbas+l7[view] [source] 2022-07-28 12:19:57
>>MindGo+(OP)
Can someone put AlphaFold's problem space into perspective for me?

Why is protein folding important? Theoretical importance? Can we do something with protein folding knowledge? If so, what?

I've been hearing about AlphaFold from the CS side. There they seem to focus on protein folding primarily as an interesting space to apply their CS efforts.

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2. fabios+P7[view] [source] 2022-07-28 12:23:37
>>dalbas+l7
You are basically made of proteins, which are basically folded sequences of amino acids, proteins are molecular machines that are the fundamental building block of animals, plants, bacteria, fungi, viruses etc.

So yeah the applications are enormous, from medicine to better industrial chemical processes, from warfare to food manufacturing.

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3. jebark+Vo[view] [source] 2022-07-28 14:01:06
>>fabios+P7
> proteins are molecular machines

Does that imply proteins have some dynamics that need to be predicted too? I remember seeing animations of molecular machines that appeared to be "walking" inside the body - are those proteins or more complex structures?

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4. gillea+ur[view] [source] 2022-07-28 14:13:28
>>jebark+Vo
Yes, very much so. Even for proteins that seems like they are just scaffolding for a catalytic centre can have important dynamics.

A classic example is haemoglobin, that 'just' binds to oxygen at the iron in the middle of the haem. Other binding sites remote from the oxygen binding one can bind to other molecules - notably carbon dioxide. The 'Bohr effect' mechanism is outlined here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_effect#Allosteric_interac...

Even at the lowest level, there is some evidence that ligand binding can affect the structure of the backbone of the protein. For example, peptide plane flipping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peptide_plane_flipping although I'm not sure where the research is on this nowadays.

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5. jebark+Mt[view] [source] 2022-07-28 14:22:20
>>gillea+ur
Fascinating. I'm a mathematician turned AI researcher by day. The more I learn about biology the more I feel that our human engineering (hard and soft) is trivially simple compared to what evolution has already created and left for us to study.
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6. gillea+uB[view] [source] 2022-07-28 14:54:00
>>jebark+Mt
Heh, I'm somewhat the opposite, as I went from a degree in biochemistry into bioinformatics (protein folds and structure) and have an amateur interest in maths.

I often recommend the book 'Cats' Paws and Catapults' by Steven Vogel, which discusses the differences between human and biological engineering. There are very different constraints, as well as the more obvious difference between intelligently directed design (by humans) and evolutionary design.

It's not totally true that our engineering is simpler than biological systems. After all, we can now manipulate matter down to the atomic level. There have been attempts to move towards self-assembling systems, or even self-repairing ones. Not quite on the same scale or sophistication as biological systems, of course.

Is a modern computer chip more complex than a virus? Is a large connected system of computers more complex than a mycelial network? Are there more parts connected in more ways in a nuclear power station as there are in a simple bacterial cell?

I think it is definitely worth considering the similarities and differences.

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7. jebark+KX[view] [source] 2022-07-28 16:27:40
>>gillea+uB
Definitely interesting comparisons.

I think my sense that biology is more complex than human engineering is that our engineering seems much more homogeneous. Computer chips are certainly very dense but the individual number of different component types are very small. Biology on the other hand seems to have a huge number of fundamental building blocks, e.g. proteins, with different behaviors. I suppose that maybe that's the wrong comparison though and software is where our engineering diversity is present.

It may well just be the case that my lack of familiarity with biology makes it seem more complex to me.

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8. gillea+1q1[view] [source] 2022-07-28 18:23:38
>>jebark+KX
You're right in focusing on the diversity of the parts. After all, a large pile of sand has a lot of parts, but they are all (to a decent approximation) the same. Therefore (?) they have the same small set of interactions, and the whole system has a 'small' set of states. (However, see 'self-organized criticality').

Software is where the diversity is, for computers. A cells systems are a set of interlocking networks of DNA, RNA, protein, small molecules, and signalling. As you say, these diverse parts then interact in diverse ways.

Another aspect is the large number of 'levels' in biological systems - humans have around seven; atoms, molecules, organelles, cells, tissues, organs, whole system. The interactions within and between these levels is a further source of complexity.

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