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[return to "U.S. public health agencies aren't ‘following the science,’ officials say"]
1. abeppu+1V[view] [source] 2022-07-15 00:33:56
>>themgt+(OP)
I'm not saying there _aren't_ problems with decision-making or guidance from our public health agencies, but this article uses really different standards for judging positions taken by those agencies than it does for any dissenting position, in a way that ends up being nonsensical.

Sure, let's critically evaluate the guidance put forward by our public health institutions, but quoting a statement from Norway's equivalent institution without the backing evidence doesn't make the US "wrong". If the evidence available on the efficacy of vaccines for kids is so ridiculously wide that it goes from -99% to +370% risk of infection, then surely Norway is _also_ drastically overstating its case when it says (about kids) "previous infection offers as good of protection as the vaccine against reinfection" esp since it _also_ seems like the protective effect of prior infection is both uncertain and changing.

How about flatly declaring that guidance was "wrong" about school closures because minority and poor kids did markedly worse at math? Obviously these decisions are complex trade-offs, and one can't conclude that the choice was "wrong" simply by pointing out one of the costs.

How about quoting a CDC scientist, who cannot possibly have strong evidence when making the prediction "CDC guidance worsened racial equity for generations to come. It failed this generation of children." Generations to come? Show us the data that lets this scientist predict the far future with such confidence.

I get that it's deeply unnerving when these institutions make sweeping recommendations based on less firm data than we would normally demand. But not recommending anything, or not taking decisive action because of the limited data would _also_ have been irresponsible. When schools first closed, we didn't know a lot of things, but it would have been pretty reckless if agencies said "well this is putting a lot of people in the hospital and spreading fast, but we don't have the data to give definitive guidance yet, so you're on your own. Depending on the range of things your communities choose, maybe in a few months we'll have the evidence to say something."

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2. civili+TX[view] [source] 2022-07-15 00:54:54
>>abeppu+1V
I agree - there may be some good stuff here (for all I know) but there's too much obvious unhinged polemic to take it seriously on its face. Someone with stronger mental hinges will need to pick through this and tell us how things shake out.
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3. checke+7c1[view] [source] 2022-07-15 03:03:28
>>civili+TX
The author is affiliated with Virginia Governor Youngkin. There is definitely an agenda being pushed here, probably for Youngkin. Interesting that the author is calling for an end to political games within the CDC when he's playing one himself.

Pandemics are hard. If the CDC doesn't present a unified public voice, then a large chunk of the population will latch on to the people they agree with, and no policy would be effective. So I can understand how it came to this.

Ultimately we need someone we can trust running that org (I'm not taking a position here). And not everyone is going to trust them and they will be blamed for any mistakes. Sometimes there isn't time to do the science, so it ends up being an educated guess at maximizing reward vs risk. It's not a position I would want to hold.

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4. cm2187+xn1[view] [source] 2022-07-15 05:24:57
>>checke+7c1
There is still a lack of common sense. Anyone who looked at the age distribution of covid patients and deaths knows that there are hardly any children getting sick from covid, and everything I heard points to the few ones having almost always other severe diseases (cancer, etc), so covid being the drop in the bucket.

They are still pushing for vaccine mandates for children that will not change anything materially.

The same applies to mask mandates. The only studies I have seen only show a marginal impact on preventing infections. At the same time we are told new variants (omicron) are many times more contagious that the variants the masks were not really stopping in the first place. Mask mandates have become a similar security theatre than bugging old ladies with their liquids at airport security.

The problem is that on insisting on measures that even laymen can tell are bullshit, they are undermining the credibility they will need the day there is something that needs to be done that will make a difference.

Credibility takes decades to build and minutes to lose. Look at Ukraine. No one believed the US intelligence when they claimed Putin was serious about invading, because of the bullshit they pushed 20 years earlier with Iraq.

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5. ImPost+Gv1[view] [source] 2022-07-15 06:51:21
>>cm2187+xn1
these objections have been raised and shot down plenty of times. for example, the framing "there are hardly any children getting sick from covid" disregards the utility of reducing children as a transmission vector, and "The only studies I have seen only show a marginal impact on preventing infections" disregards the protection they afford by arbitrarily labeling it as "marginal"

>No one believed the US intelligence when they claimed Putin was serious about invading

I don't know from where you draw this conclusion, considering his track record of doing it previously in Ukraine in 2014, and Georgia before that, and given his moving of an entire army to the border, and subsequently issuing threatening ultimatums to the world they knew the world would never subjugate themselves to

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6. rustyb+eo3[view] [source] 2022-07-15 20:44:58
>>ImPost+Gv1
A lot these these conflicts that appear to be about science are really about values. Many of the people making arguments about COVID's relatively low danger to children are doing so because they believe the mitigations (lockdowns, remote schooling, masking) are harmful and not worth the benefit of reducing transmission. While those arguing in favor, believe the costs to children are worth it.
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