zlacker

>>themgt+(OP)
The arguments they make regarding children's vaccines don't make much sense to me. The end target for the pediatric vaccine trials was immunobridging, which has widely been used for other common childhood vaccines. Are they arguing against those as well? If so, that goes against a widely accepted and validated strategy to bridge adult vaccines down to pediatric age groups. Efficacy is a very complicated thing to measure as variants change. The symptomatic disease efficacy seen for the pediatric trials compare well vs. Omicron to what we've seen for adults, so it's all consistent and makes sense. Also, would they argue against the annual flu shots? We don't even run efficacy trials for those every year for different strain compositions.

Also, a bit of perspective: we vaccinate children for many illnesses that would result in comparatively "small" numbers of pediatric deaths (lower than Covid even!). The reason is that even rare pediatric deaths, if preventable, are terrible given the life-years lost. And there HAVE been FAR too many pediatric Covid deaths by our modern standards for pediatric infectious diseases. If Covid only affected kids, the absolute numbers of deaths would be a very worrisome thing. Second, the possibility of long-term complications from even non-fatal illnesses. For pediatric COVID, MIS-C and potential super antigen links to the recent spread of pediatric hepatitis are more than sufficient to meet that bar.

Finally - there was no safety signal seen in the 5-12 year old pediatric vaccines that have been given out to millions for ~year already, and no signal in the under 5 trials as well. The myocarditis risk primarily seems in teenage and older groups and linked to puberty/adolescent hormones.

There may be contrarian voices in the FDA and CDC as there will be in any large organization. But to believe their voices over the consensus requires a heavy dose of motivated reasoning and not engaging with some basic facts about the goals of pediatric vaccines and the ways vaccine trials work. There's a reason every pediatrician parent I know was first in line to get their kids vaccinated.

>>strang+nW
> there HAVE been FAR too many pediatric Covid deaths

Let's see your numbers of <6 years and <8 etc.

> If Covid only affected kids

In all age groups, it affected children the least.

'In total, 540,305 people were tested for SARS-COV-2 and 129,704 (24.0%) were positive. In children aged <16 years, 35,200 tests were performed and 1408 (4.0%) were positive for SARS-CoV-2, compared to 19.1%–34.9% adults.' https://adc.bmj.com/content/105/12/1180

>>landem+U61
I'm not too sure about the "your" part, but it looks like the CDC says 453 for 0-4y.

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-...

>>n8henr+h91
Died WITH COVID, not OF COVID. Let's be clear about what they are counting.

More kids have died in the same period from drowning in America.

>>imperi+cb1
CDC says, 'Every year in the United States there are an estimated: 3,960* fatal unintentional drownings' https://www.cdc.gov/drowning/facts/index.html

With enough amplification from drown child's noses some virus fragments might be found. But vaccines won't help with drowning or car crashes, which each kill more children.

>>landem+7i1
Well if there was a vaccine that reduced the risk of dying from drowning I think you’d definitely want to add it to the childhood vaccination schedule. Again, death rate is not the only metric by which we decide what to vaccinate children for.

>>strang+jr1
What if the hypothetical risk-of-drowning vaccine were found to greatly heighten the young recipients', particularly young males', risk of myocarditis and pericarditis (among other potential adverse effects) and a significant percentage of those who developed myocarditis/pericarditis passed away within a few subsequent years?

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.23.21268276v...

>>briand+az1
Based on your link it looks like < 50 / million for a 3 vaccine series?

Don't forget to consider the baseline risk of myocarditis in this cohort as well as the risk of myocarditis with COVID itself.

I'm also not sure where you're finding numbers about the risk of serious morbidity or mortality with COVID-vaccine-associated myocarditis, please share if you know. My impression is that -- much like COVID -- while cases can be serious / fatal, most cases end up making a full recovery without further sequelae.

>>n8henr+ka2
The myocarditis risk from covid, like most health risks from covid, is higher for the elderly and low for non-elderly people (see huge disparity in myocarditis risk found to result from a 2nd Moderna jab vs. covid infection for males under 40 in Patone et al. on MedRxiv). The mRNA and adenovirus-vector shots do not prevent infection or transmission and recent studies indicate vaccinated persons take longer to clear recent Omicron variants than those who have refused the vaccines [e.g. "Duration of Shedding of Culturable Virus in SARS-CoV-2 Omicron (BA.1) Infection" (see "Figure 1. Viral Decay and Time to Negative Viral Culture."): https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2202092], so younger people aren't helping anyone else by subjecting themselves to the risks of the vaccines. Young, healthy people are being bullied and guilted and tricked into playing Russian roulette, repeatedly to nobody's benefit and at their own very real peril. Having apparently suffered no significant ill effects from a first or second or third shot doesn't even indicate that subsequent shots will be similarly well-tolerated. And myocarditis and pericarditis aren't the only severe or fatal adverse effects being observed. It's madness.