zlacker

>>rcoves+(OP)
Original HN post flagged: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27394925

>>rcoves+1
Given the outsized effect of flags in comparison to upvotes, I’m of the opinion that Chinese national HN members, and some subset of “no politics evar” crowd is more than enough to flag these to just shy of being dead.

>>falcol+lb
Please keep nationalistic attacks off this forum. You have no idea the sort of pressure that users with minority perspectives because of their national/ethnic backgrounds are under on this majority-Western forum. People have literally been hounded off this site after getting attacked for this. Is that the kind of community you, or any of us, want to be part of? Of course it is not. Therefore, don't include swipes like that in your comments here, and remember that other users are just as human as you are, even if they have different backgrounds than you do.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

>>dang+Jv
Two demonstrably true observations:

- China actively works to remove mentions about the Tiananmen Square Massacre.

- There are CCP sympathetic posters on HN. I've had them reply to me before. They have identified themselves Chinese.

Combining these two into the statement, "There are posters sympathetic to the CCP stance of censoring the Tiananmen Square Massacre who are flagging these posts," does require some information not available on my side of the screen, but it's not exactly a big jump.

And on a completely personal observation, it wouldn't bug me much if HN did not tolerate such members' attempts to censor the Tiananmen Square Massacre - did not protect them as a group from criticism. Intolerance of intolerance being required for a tolerant society, and all that.

>>falcol+MW
I just want to provide you with another data point. I may well be in the minority, but nevertheless I am a bonafide contributor and enjoyer of HN. I should also point out that I did not and would likely not flag posts about the Tienanmen Square Massacre. However, there is a sense in which I could be construed as being "sympathetic" to the CCP and I'm 100% British. I am not sympathetic in the sense that I support the murder and cover up of protesting students, rather I am unsympathetic to the idea that the CCP is motivated by a cartoonish idea of despotism. Whilst I do believe that the most significant component in the censorship of Tank Man is formal CCP policy, I don't believe that extends to the wider conversation. My feeling is that the majority of non-Chinese commentators are disproportionally informed on Chinese history compared to Western history. For example the Opium Wars, or why Hong Kong was a British colony, or the effect the Century of Humiliation had/has on the Chinese collective consciousness. Again, to make sure I'm clear, there is no possible justification for state-sanctioned murder. However my "sympathy" is that we are failing as intelligent and caring fellow human beings if we cannot imagine the CCP as anything other than a Hollywood-esque super villain. So whilst I know I push against these stereotypes, and I suspect so too do Chinese nationals, that doesn't mean I also push against attempts to censor The Tienanmen Square Massacre.

So I'm not trying to disprove your point that censoring is actively occurring, I just want to try to add some nuance to the situation, that there are other currents at play here. And that when sweeping sentiments are expressed and reinforced about China there's a danger those other currents get drowned out and even misconstrued. So if I'm interpreting @dang's intentions correctly, I very much support his attempts to navigate this almost impossible situation with fairness yet firmness.