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[return to "Signal Server code on GitHub is up to date again"]
1. woah+ny[view] [source] 2021-04-07 17:31:45
>>domano+(OP)
A lot of these comments are just manifestations of the kneejerk HN "crypto bad" reflex. Here's the deal:

- Whether or not Signal's server is open source has nothing to do with security. Signal's security rests on the user's knowledge that the open source client is encrypting messages end to end. With that knowledge, the server code could be anything, and Signal inc. would still not be able to read your messages. In fact, having the server code open source adds absolutely nothing to this security model, because no matter how open source and secure the server code might be, Signal inc. could still be logging messages upstream of it. The security rests only upon the open source client code. The server is completely orthogonal to security.

- Signal's decision to keep early development of the MobileCoin feature set private was valid. Signal is not your weekend node.js module with two stars on Github. When changes get made to the repo, they will be noticed. This might mess up their marketing plan, especially if they weren't even sure whether they were going to end up going live with the feature. Signal is playing in the big leagues, competing with messengers which have billions of dollars in marketing budget, will never ever be even the smallest amount open source, and are selling all your messages to the highest bidder. They can't afford to handicap themselves just to keep some guys on Hacker News happy.

- Signal's decision to keep development to the (private) master branch, instead of splitting the MobileCoin integration into a long-running feature branch is a valid choice. It's a lot of work to keep a feature branch up to date over years, and to split every feature up into the public and non-public components which then get committed to separate branches. This would greatly affect their architecture and slow down shipping for no benefit, given that the open sourceness of the server is orthogonal to security.

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2. lucide+sI[view] [source] 2021-04-07 18:11:54
>>woah+ny
> - Whether or not Signal's server is open source has nothing to do with security. [...] having the server code open source adds absolutely nothing to this security model, [...] The security rests only upon the open source client code. The server is completely orthogonal to security.

The issue a lot of people have with Signal is that your definition here of where security comes from is an extremely narrow & technical one, and many would rather look at security in a more holistic manner.

The problem with messaging security is that there's two ends, and individually we only control one of them. Ok, screenshotting & leaking your messages will always be a concern no matter what technology we develop, but the other challenge is just getting the other end to use Signal in the first place and that's governed by the network effect of competitors.

Open Source is essential for security because one of the most fundamental security features we can possibly hope to gain is platform mobility. Signal doesn't offer any. If Signal gains mass adoption and the server changes, we're right back to our current security challenge: getting your contacts onto the new secure thing.

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3. kreetx+iN[view] [source] 2021-04-07 18:32:14
>>lucide+sI
But now the server code is there, so we now have this mobility, no?
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4. acrisp+NO[view] [source] 2021-04-07 18:38:47
>>kreetx+iN
Until they decide to go silent for another 11 months
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5. kreetx+Em1[view] [source] 2021-04-07 20:58:11
>>acrisp+NO
Most of the popular chat-app space is not open source. What is it with Signal that people feel entitled to condemn it for not having the latest commits on github?
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6. neolog+Rv1[view] [source] 2021-04-07 21:41:22
>>kreetx+Em1
What is it with chat apps that people don't condemn them for being closed source? Imagine if GCC hid their changes for a year.
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7. kreetx+rT1[view] [source] 2021-04-07 23:56:48
>>neolog+Rv1
Sure, it would be nice if any software were open source, but that you are entitled for it? Funny attitude.
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8. neolog+nW1[view] [source] 2021-04-08 00:16:24
>>kreetx+rT1
There's plenty of writing on that issue [1]. It makes a lot of sense to think of people being actually entitled to certain rights, especially in domains with network effects.

Btw, the Signal Foundation is a non-profit organization that benefits from community goodwill based on an open-source ethos. So people are critical when its software is closed source.

[1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html

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9. kreetx+TW2[view] [source] 2021-04-08 10:53:35
>>neolog+nW1
I don't think a piece on gnu.org qualifies as "plenty of writing" and for sure doesn't count as basis for what you are entitled for :).
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10. neolog+Hk4[view] [source] 2021-04-08 19:15:39
>>kreetx+TW2
> I don't think a piece on gnu.org qualifies as "plenty of writing"

There are some links there to other pieces if you want to read more about it.

> for sure doesn't count as basis for what you are entitled for

I'm not claiming that moral authority flows from the Gnu brand; rather, they provide some information and reasoning which people can use to come to their own conclusions.

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