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[return to "Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS"]
1. ocdtre+e3[view] [source] 2021-03-30 19:47:03
>>gorman+(OP)
" Modern cars regularly send basic data about vehicle components, their safety status and service schedules to car manufacturers, and mobile phones work in very similar ways." -Google

This is a beautiful quote because it is an example of one industry's bad behavior leading to another industry's bad behavior, upon which the first industry then users the second's similarity to justify themselves. Cars only started doing this because phones made it normal. It's wrong in both cases.

It's similar to when Apple defended it's 30% store cut by claiming it's an "industry standard"... specifically, an industry standard that Apple established.

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2. Alexan+N5[view] [source] 2021-03-30 19:59:06
>>ocdtre+e3
This may be pedantic, but Steam was collecting its 30% long before the App Store opened. Thought maybe that was inspired by Apple's cut of music revenues in the iTunes Store.
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3. grishk+kf[view] [source] 2021-03-30 20:45:40
>>Alexan+N5
You pay 30% for all the hosting and listing and payment processing. But then you aren't required to use Steam to distribute your game — you could as well set up your own website. There's nothing preventing you. There's no predatory code signing on desktop OSes.

On the other hand, you can't sideload apps onto iOS devices. You HAVE to go through Apple. You either publish on the app store, or you don't have an iOS app. That's different. That's very different. That's antitrust-can't-happen-sooner different.

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4. jodrel+Yk[view] [source] 2021-03-30 21:10:14
>>grishk+kf
You aren't required to use the Apple store to distribute your product. You can sell to Android users and desktop/laptop users.

> "That's different. That's very different

Is it? Why is it? You can't sell software to run on Kindle Paperwhite even though it's a full computer inside. What's the specific difference between that and iOS, other than "Apple's ecosystem and customers are desirable, so I want to use it" and "I don't want to pay for it"?

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5. grishk+4q[view] [source] 2021-03-30 21:37:54
>>jodrel+Yk
> You aren't required to use the Apple store to distribute your product. You can sell to Android users and desktop/laptop users.

You aren't making much sense. You won't have any semblance of adoption if you don't have presence on iOS. Except maybe in India where iOS market share is tiny.

> You can't sell software to run on Kindle Paperwhite even though it's a full computer inside.

It's an appliance. It's marketed as a device to serve one purpose — read books. Amazon isn't making apps for it either, as far as the user is concerned, there's no notion of application software on these things.

By the way, washing machines and microwaves also have a full computer in them — there's CPU, RAM, and ROM. Yes, tiny and underpowered. Probably not quite powerful enough to run Doom. Computers nonetheless, technically.

Yet no one raises any objections about not being able to run arbitrary code on them. Precisely because of the marketing and expectations.

> What's the specific difference between that and iOS

iPhones and iPads are marketed as general-purpose computing devices. They are not appliances by any stretch of imagination. Yet they are crippled because Apple has knowingly and deliberately put in a limitation so they only run code that was signed by Apple. This limits their general-purposefulness. This forces developers who don't want or need the hosting and listing still go through the app store.

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6. jodrel+6A[view] [source] 2021-03-30 22:48:20
>>grishk+4q
Apple devices aren't crippled by it, they're improved by it. By curation and restriction. Users don't buy Apple gear to pay the lowest possible price for software, or to sideload software, users buy Apple to get something that works. The whole point is that Apple is selling an Apple experience, not an overwhelming flood of "fix it yourself" freeware. Users who want that can get it elsewhere, they shouldn't be forced to suffer it on iOS as well. Taking the restrictions away isn't an improvement. They aren't mandatory restrictions until using iOS is mandatory, and it isn't.

This is like a restaurant demanding smart shoes for customers, and you complaining that it's anti-competitively hurting your sneaker business and the restaurant should be forced to change. Customers going there are going there knowing the dress code applies to them and others, forcibly blocking that removes part of their reason for going there at all.

> "You aren't making much sense. You won't have any semblance of adoption if you don't have presence on iOS."

That is the sense, you aren't required to have any semblance of adoption. Apple is successful by building a curated, restricted, "exclusive" (by perception if not fact) experience. You want access to the customers and their money, without upholding the reasons the customers are using that platform.

> "Yet no one raises any objections about not being able to run arbitrary code on them. Precisely because of the marketing and expectations."

Now you aren't making sense. Apple never marketed or set expectations that you could sideload apps on iPhone or iOS, did they?

> "By the way, washing machines and microwaves also have a full computer in them — there's CPU, RAM, and ROM. Yes, tiny and underpowered. Probably not quite powerful enough to run Doom. Computers nonetheless, technically."

So you're going after Bosch for anti-competitively not allowing you to sell software that runs on their washing machines, and not allowing owners to sideload? Because this is all about anti-competitive, you said? No obviously you aren't doing that, which calls into question your claimed reasons. You can easily list your app on Apple's store and compete, what it's about is you want more money. Which is fine in its own way, until you try to get some legal mandate for Apple to force me to worse platform so you can avoid paying Apple money for using Apple's platform and reputation.

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7. realus+Lo1[view] [source] 2021-03-31 08:06:15
>>jodrel+6A
That argument would be fine if we had plenty of mobile OS providers, except we have only two and it's a duopoly with very clear market issues.

If you don't like Bosch, there's hundreds of other manufacturer, if you don't like a restaurant, there's hundreds of other ones you can pick, if you don't like Android and iOS, well, you're screwed.

That's the market analogy, secondly, those monopolies are essential in today's computing world and currently power a great part of the tech industry, easy to see some issues there.

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8. yazadd+vu1[view] [source] 2021-03-31 09:02:03
>>realus+Lo1
> The whole point is that Apple is selling an Apple experience, not an overwhelming flood of "fix it yourself" freeware. Users who want that can get it elsewhere, they shouldn't be forced to suffer it on iOS as well.

> That argument would be fine if we had plenty of mobile OS providers

So your problem is Apple solved the customer problem so well with “an Apple experience” that all other phone OSes were abandoned.

And as a result Apple should be forced to ruin that experience beloved by their customers, so that the relatively small number of software developers make a little more money?

As an Apple customer, I’m glad your software is being gated from me. I don’t trust your judgement.

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9. realus+Uw1[view] [source] 2021-03-31 09:27:40
>>yazadd+vu1
> So your problem is Apple solved the customer problem so well with “an Apple experience” that all other phone OSes were abandoned.

I don't really care how and why those two companies got their monopoly, that's beside the point.

> And as a result Apple should be forced to ruin that experience beloved by their customers, so that the relatively small number of software developers make a little more money?

There's hundreds of thousands of developers on mobile platforms and juste two single companies on the other side with blatant anti-trust issues, that's an easy argument here.

> As an Apple customer, I’m glad your software is being gated from me. I don’t trust your judgement.

I really don't care if you use my software or not either. I'm currently forced to use one of those two mobile platform for my daily use and both choices are terrible in their own way due to anti-trust issues. You have absolutely zero power over Apple which owns your device anyway so I'm not sure why you would say that, it's not like your opinion would matter to them.

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10. yazadd+4B1[view] [source] 2021-03-31 10:07:34
>>realus+Uw1
> I don't really care how and why those two companies got their monopoly, that's beside the point.

How do you expect to beat Apple or even an argument on the internet, let alone with Congress, if you’re not even willing to learn from your (so called) competitors?

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11. realus+IB1[view] [source] 2021-03-31 10:13:47
>>yazadd+4B1
Which competitors? They aren't any. I expect anti-trust laws to be applied, as simple as that.
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12. jodrel+Jc2[view] [source] 2021-03-31 14:26:57
>>realus+IB1
What anti-trust measures made Blackberry give up and switch to Android? Was it Apple's doing that Microsoft bought Nokia and Nokia imploded with Symbian and Maemo and inability to compete with iOS? Was it Apple's doing that Microsoft went from Windows CE to Windows Mobile to Windows Phone 7 to Windows Phone 8, each incompatible with the previous, and they couldn't attract developers because they couldn't keep a stable API and didn't embrace the web? Was it Apple's doing that all the featurephone providers from Motorola to Sony, and all the PDA providers like Psion and Palm and Dell, and all the computer companies like IBM and Intel, all completely failed to release a credible competitor device?

Apple have 27% of the mobile OS market.

Simple as what? What do you expect, what do you want, anti-trust laws being applied to do? Magically conjour up a competitor from nowhere? Or just smash iOS in resentment for its success so you can have avoid having to suffer Android?

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