zlacker

>>delbar+(OP)
The Chimera section claims:

> Pangolins and bats don't usually cohabitate, making this somewhat unlikely in nature.

Horseshoe bats are nocturnal animals that roost in caves during the day but sometimes practice perch feeding at night [1]:

> The other strategy is known as perch feeding: Individuals roost on feeding perches and wait for prey to fly past, then fly out to capture it.

Pangolins [2] and palm civets [3] are nocturnal and arboreal. The bat viral RNA sequences come from anal swabs of netted animals so they are primarily gastrointestinal infections. All of these animals are found in the Lancang/Mekong [4] catch basin. Bat guano seems like a good vector for the virus.

Gain-of-function experiments require two viral isolates that recombine during passage. The lab theory assumes that the RNA sequence of the original viral isolates were never shared. I find this scenario unlikely but I am open to changing my mind based on evidence. SARS-1 is evidence of a very similar zoonotic scenario.

Humans that encounter bat guano in this region also seem like a good host for a recombination event.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_bat#Diet_and_foragin...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangolin#Behavior

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_palm_civet#Feeding_and_d...

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mekong

>>sradma+dt
The official position is that the start of this pandemic was in 'Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market' in Wuhan. [0]

So are you proposing that a pangolin from Lancang was transported more than 2000km to a seafood wetmarket in Wuhan?

At face value, this sounds like a very unlikely scenario for a zoonotic event/origin.

[0] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2020/04/coronavir...

>>DoingI+BH
Given that apparently the virus was outside China in early December already, is it possible that Wuhan was simply the first fast-spreading location rather than the place where the transmission happened? If the virus was in Milan’s sewers in December, it feels that it might as swell have started spreading there first.

Likewise, Italy contained the virus from May to September, then it exploded again. Nothing particularly happened in September, yet by chance it spiked.

Just speculating though, I’d like to hear others’ opinion on this thought.

>>bambol+NJ
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

There is no direct air flight from Italy to Wuhan without going through Amsterdam Schipol or Beijing. There are no Shipping ports in inland Wuhan.

Do you truly believe it is a realistic scenario that a virus this infectious could traverse from northern Italy to Wuhan, Hubei, without creating multiple infection hotspots along the way?

If I am to put on my tinfoil hat this is exactly the sort of disinformation I would expect from CCP propaganda in order to fight US politician memes of the "China Virus".

>>DoingI+yl1
He's not making an extraordinary claim, just a sensible possible conclusion based on established facts. In fact this is the most likely scenario (Wuhan was the first known outbreak but the virus does not originate from there)

Could we also stop dropping "CCP propaganda" everytime someone writes something others disagree with?

>>mytail+3u1
> Could we also stop dropping "CCP propaganda" everytime someone writes something others disagree with?

No, we can't drop "CCP propaganda" fact. Man, they put DOCTORS doing their job to prisons ! Actually we shoud be more concerned about such idiocy ! Where is logic in that ? Looks more like mentality from few hundreds years ago reborn in autocratic country. Communists usually give orders for achievements :>

But yes, as you pointed, not everything is "CCP propaganda" and such meme is often trown in unresponsible way.

And yes, pointing earlier cases in Europe is good to know too. But in Europe there was cases (x-rays photos, can't find info about dead cases) in September / November but in China there was EPIDEMY in early November. Still, all that is not a proof about origin of patient zero. And Wuhan could be it.