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1. sradma+dt[view] [source] 2020-12-30 23:36:12
>>delbar+(OP)
The Chimera section claims:

> Pangolins and bats don't usually cohabitate, making this somewhat unlikely in nature.

Horseshoe bats are nocturnal animals that roost in caves during the day but sometimes practice perch feeding at night [1]:

> The other strategy is known as perch feeding: Individuals roost on feeding perches and wait for prey to fly past, then fly out to capture it.

Pangolins [2] and palm civets [3] are nocturnal and arboreal. The bat viral RNA sequences come from anal swabs of netted animals so they are primarily gastrointestinal infections. All of these animals are found in the Lancang/Mekong [4] catch basin. Bat guano seems like a good vector for the virus.

Gain-of-function experiments require two viral isolates that recombine during passage. The lab theory assumes that the RNA sequence of the original viral isolates were never shared. I find this scenario unlikely but I am open to changing my mind based on evidence. SARS-1 is evidence of a very similar zoonotic scenario.

Humans that encounter bat guano in this region also seem like a good host for a recombination event.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_bat#Diet_and_foragin...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangolin#Behavior

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_palm_civet#Feeding_and_d...

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mekong

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2. DoingI+BH[view] [source] 2020-12-31 01:31:31
>>sradma+dt
The official position is that the start of this pandemic was in 'Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market' in Wuhan. [0]

So are you proposing that a pangolin from Lancang was transported more than 2000km to a seafood wetmarket in Wuhan?

At face value, this sounds like a very unlikely scenario for a zoonotic event/origin.

[0] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2020/04/coronavir...

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3. lamont+x21[view] [source] 2020-12-31 05:17:20
>>DoingI+BH
Straight from the wikipedia entry on the Huanan market:

"In May 2020, George Gao, the director of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, said animal samples collected from the seafood market had tested negative for the virus, indicating that the market was the site of an early superspreading event, but it was not the site of the initial outbreak.[43]"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-rules-out-animal-market-a...

I can't find references now but the idea that the virus started in Wuhan roughly early November and that the Huanan market was just a notable superspreading event which brought attention to the virus is pretty accepted in scientific circles. The virus was too well adpated to humans initially and has not evolved significantly since its first detection then (D614G and the new variants aside).

The animals that carried the virus in the Huanan market were probably just an infected human, and not particularly close to the origin case.

It was just detected there because it was a superspreading event that happened in the backyard of the nearby lab.

The most plausible explanation I've heard as an origin is that it jumped from bat to human in the process of bat guano farming. This would have obviously happened in the rural area outside of Wuhan, but the virus found its way through spreading events into the higher density city, where it was eventually detected. Cryptic spread would have been happening for at least a month or more as it adapted to humans.

The furin cleavage site may also be the result of a recombination event between two coronaviruses (coronaviruses don't just mutation and reassortment like influenza, they also recombine and dual infection with two coronaviruses in an animal or human can shuffle parts of genes):

https://jvi.asm.org/content/84/7/3134?ijkey=b8e66cb01995eeb4...

So if you just assume that trajectory from bat guano farming to city center, along with a missing link to provide the furin cleavage site, then the title articles analysis really falls apart. Not surprising that the bats are far away, the furin cleavage site may be not surprising if we manage to find a similar virus in nature, and mostly what is left is that it wasn't detected until it was right on the doorstep of the virology lab (where the virus found the people who were likely to set off the alarm about it) and the rest some mild cover-your-ass at the lab would be entirely expected.

But that means that there's some bats with answers somewhere outside of Wuhan but China has been stalling efforts to go find them.

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