zlacker

[return to "Social Cooling (2017)"]
1. tboyd4+dm[view] [source] 2020-09-29 15:10:04
>>rapnie+(OP)
This is exactly why I had to get off of Facebook (again).

I deactivated my first account 8 years ago, but got back on to re-connect with my old pals and acquaintances from back in the day. For that reason, it was fantastic.

After another year, I realized that I can't actually say ANYTHING interesting on this platform without offending someone. There's a lot of variety in my crowd. I have the sense IRL to know that not everything is for everybody, but that doesn't matter much on Facebook unless you want to spend hours and hours hand-crafting subsets of your friends for different topics (I don't). And I have zero interest in posting selfies or status updates of what's going on in my life, so that made the platform exceedingly boring and a waste of time for me. It's a shame, because it does work really well for "connecting" with people (in the shallowest sense of the word).

◧◩
2. reaper+3s[view] [source] 2020-09-29 15:36:31
>>tboyd4+dm
I realized that I can't actually say ANYTHING interesting on this platform without offending someone.

The only thing worse than people who are offended by everything is having to be afraid of offending over-sensitive people.

There's a lot of variety in my crowd

Which is a good thing. It's how it always was. You surrounded yourself with lots of different people with varying opinions. It's how you learned things. It was called being an adult.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Antonin Scolia were polar opposites on the issues. But they were also very good friends. Because they were adults. They weren't children who had to surround themselves with familiar things that reinforce their own views of the world.

I remember in college, we were encouraged to seek out differing opinions. I remember a guy who once chastised me for not seeking a broad enough range of opinions. He said, "What's wrong with you? Don't you want to be challenged?" My understanding is that sort of thing would never happen on a college campus today.

Be who you are. If people can't respect you for having a different opinion, they're not adults, and they're certainly not "friends," Facebook or otherwise.

◧◩◪
3. stormb+x91[view] [source] 2020-09-29 19:18:38
>>reaper+3s
> Which is a good thing. It's how it always was. You surrounded yourself with lots of different people with varying opinions. It's how you learned things. It was called being an adult.

This is a load of gilded age nonsense. There's never been any point in history where people deliberately exposed themselves to uncomfortable truths about people they considered other as part of "growing up".

I'd really challenge you to think about when you think this was. Was it in the 80s while gay people were dying of aids while straight people ignored their plight?

The 70s when mainstream american society treated anti-war activists as terrorists?

The 50s and 60s when white people literally moved out of cities and into suburbs to get away from black people?

What you're experiencing isn't "people failing to communicate with people with diverse views," but the internet finally forcing people to coexist with social groups they could just ignore until now. You have to exist on the same site as people who have been deeply harmed by the systems that benefit you and you're scared of that anger and those people's unwillingness to accept your desire to stick your head in the sand like your parents could.

◧◩◪◨
4. maniga+zc1[view] [source] 2020-09-29 19:37:26
>>stormb+x91
I believe the parent comment is describing how most people had friends of various backgrounds that they saw physically and communicated with freely - instead of having a social filter over digital connections that blocked them immediately before they ever really knew them.

> "internet finally forcing people to coexist with social groups they could just ignore until now"

How so? The internet has made it much easier to isolate and block than ever before. That's exactly why there's so much division today.

> "you're scared of that anger and those people's unwillingness"

What are you talking about here?

◧◩◪◨⬒
5. stormb+8h1[view] [source] 2020-09-29 20:02:35
>>maniga+zc1
> I believe the parent comment is describing how most people had friends of various backgrounds that they saw physically and communicated with freely - instead of having a social filter over digital connections that blocked them immediately before they ever really knew them.

In person or not, everyone has a social filter on who they interact with. Your wealth, race, gender, orientation, interests, and location all act as filters against who you'll interact with, let alone be friends with. If you go to Harvard, how much relative opportunity do you think that gives you to befriend someone who isn't a rich white person? Especially, ya know, when only white people (white men, even) could even go to Harvard.

These filters are more or less permeable by the culture and scope of your life, but if you think there's some magical moment in the past when white people by an large all had black friends or rich people all had poor friends, you're dreaming.

It's easier now to experience perspectives alien to you by a country mile. It's also easier for them to intrude into your life.

Somehow, it's the most privileged people are the most likely to call this intrusion an attack. To call people wanting to re-establish boundaries with them a violation of their 'right to free speech'. Funny that.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
6. maniga+bq1[view] [source] 2020-09-29 20:52:34
>>stormb+8h1
What magical moment? You seem to be reaching for extremes rather than accepting the very reasonable assertion that the vast majority of people now pick a side and never engage in any dialogue.

All those characteristics you mentioned are outward and secondary to the one that matters the most - the way you think. The original post said "varying opinions". Your beliefs, character and worldview are far more important than what you look like and you had to actually communicate with people to understand this. This built much better dialogue and interactions.

Now it takes a few taps to block millions based on assumptions and the most tenuous associations, as well as surface attributes like you mentioned. Someone merely liking a post you disagree with is enough to end a relationship. New perspectives being easier to experience also means they're easier to block, and the latter is the issue being discussed.

As far as "right to free speech" is concerned, I don't see what it has to do with this but regardless you also have a right to not participate in any discussion. Nobody is forcing you to talk, and nobody ever could.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔
7. stormb+Lq1[view] [source] 2020-09-29 20:55:41
>>maniga+bq1
I'm not the one who started with the comparison between past and present. The original post I was responding to was clearly saying that people were better in the past.

My assertion is simple: people have always lived in bubbles (honestly this is so blatantly true it's hilarious anyone even tries to argue against it) and the internet has only strengthened those bubbles in so far as it has forced people to confront the edges of them more readily.

No one ever had to "block millions" until twitter existed. The concept was meaningless. Every day of anyone's life before the internet every single person was ignoring the lives of countless people who had no way to reach them, an effective but implicit block on literally everything uncomfortable in the world.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯
8. bumby+Ts1[view] [source] 2020-09-29 21:07:55
>>stormb+Lq1
>It's easier now to experience perspectives

>the internet has only strengthened those bubbles

I’m having a hard time tracking whether you think things are better or worse now, unless you are asserting the contact hypothesis is wrong

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣
9. stormb+vw1[view] [source] 2020-09-29 21:28:37
>>bumby+Ts1
People have to work harder now to maintain bubbles like people had in the past naturally, especially on platforms like twitter.

I don't think this speaks specifically to whether or not "things are better/worse now," it's a criticism of a particular pop-psych trope angle of measuring it.

I think the contact hypothesis is correct. People interacting with people they're bigoted against will generally ease or counteract their bigotry.

I also think that people overestimate the degree to which contact happened in the past and mistake modern forms of 'bubble-friction' (for lack of a better term) being more visible than the silent, implicit kinds in the past for it being new.

Middle class and rich white people literally left north american inner cities to struggle on their own with reduced tax bases to escape having to interact with black people. They did this quietly, and they did it in a way that appeared individualistic and rational.

The effect was far more profound than any possible consequence of being blocked on twitter or yelled at on facebook, but it was very easy to ignore happening.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣▦
10. bumby+sz1[view] [source] 2020-09-29 21:46:09
>>stormb+vw1
Thanks for the well-reasoned reply. I think the angle one of the other commenters may have been taking is that the "social filter" (i.e., social network algorithms) reinforce bubbles rather than, as you say, make people "work harder now to maintain bubbles".

I think some of the work by people like Tristan Harris and Renee Diresta support this. The attention economy works in large part simultaneously on outrage and confirmation bias. To some of the parent comment points, not interacting in the real world may short-circuit the ability for us to confront different views while simultaneously acknowledging others humanity.

>white people literally left north american inner cities to struggle on their own with reduced tax bases to escape having to interact with black people.

White flight is a real thing, but I think the plight of these cities is much more complicated than to be distilled to a single feature like race. As an example, Detroit went from one of the wealthiest cities to bankrupt in a generation. White flight is part of this, as is corruption, as is poor economic diversification, and a host of other issues.

[go to top]