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[return to "FBI used Etsy, LinkedIn to make arrest in torching of Philadelphia police cars"]
1. manfre+a9[view] [source] 2020-06-17 21:47:31
>>fortra+(OP)
While it's not exactly a novel technique (I've read similar stories since the early 2010s at least), I'm continuously surprises by how much people are able to glean from inferences and online sources. The saga of the "he will not divide us" flag is particularly impressive.
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2. def8ce+I9[view] [source] 2020-06-17 21:50:59
>>manfre+a9
It's called OSINT and it's been around a lot longer than 2010.
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3. mikece+gb[view] [source] 2020-06-17 22:02:27
>>def8ce+I9
I'm not sure why 'def8cefe' is being voted down for pointing out the name of this process. OSINT is short for "open source intelligence" and the TL;DR is that only "open sources" (eg: not government/restricted datasets) are use to perform a digital investigation. Steve Rambam has given talks about digital investigations from the very beginning of the H.O.P.E. Conferences on this topic. In addition to law enforcement using this it's also used by private investigators or just amateur enthusiasts who team up to help solve missing children cases and track down info from other past cold cases or to even bust child trafficking rings. The skills natural to Hacker News readers makes me surprised there's not more general interest in OSINT here, especially defensive tactics to make sure we allow as little of our personal info to land in open datasets to feed OSINT investigations in the future.
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4. def8ce+Mb[view] [source] 2020-06-17 22:05:09
>>mikece+gb
There is interest in OSINT but my comment could be misconstrued as supportive of or normalizing LE practises so that upsets a very vocal interest group on the Internet.
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5. mmm_gr+7d[view] [source] 2020-06-17 22:11:25
>>def8ce+Mb
I mean, I don't think even the internet nut-jobs support torching police cars...

Edit: Ouch, looks like quite a few people here do. Do y'all really think that's the best way to effect social and political change? A minority of Americans screaming louder and using terrorism to vent their spleens won't solve the issue. In a democracy, everyone must focus on getting more people to vote for different policies to effect change.

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6. dx87+if[view] [source] 2020-06-17 22:27:22
>>mmm_gr+7d
Depending on the reason for protest, police cars and government buildings are some of the only things it makes sense to burn down IMO. With the recent protests against police and government racism, for example, I'd understand them burning things belonging to the people oppressing them rather than stores and businesses that provide jobs and services for people in the area.
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7. mmm_gr+Bl[view] [source] 2020-06-17 23:11:58
>>dx87+if
I mean people are torching stuff in entirely different cities. It's not like they're torching chauvin's car then going home. Still illegal, but I guess I could understand the process behind that. Burning some cop car in Atlanta, what? That's just mob rage.
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8. malnou+ln[view] [source] 2020-06-17 23:26:40
>>mmm_gr+Bl
I think that dismisses the very real impact long term systemic racism has had. Additionally, a black man was just (allegedly, charges have been filed) murdered by the police after a a police officer shot him in the back and another stood on his shoulders while he was dying.

There is justifiable outrage. I do not condone wanton destruction and arson, but disruptive protests work in a way that peaceful ones alone do not.

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9. salawa+Or[view] [source] 2020-06-18 00:06:57
>>malnou+ln
If you watch the body cam footage on that, you'll notice that after the suspect yoinked the officer's Tazer and booked it, his partner did try to Taze the subject but missed. Shortly thereafter you hear the two shots.

If the suspect hadn't stolen the cop's Tazer, he may very well be alive today. I cannot fault an officer for using his sidearm when someone is running off with his Tazer given the situation. A suspect running off with your piece is nightmare fuel for cops as I understand it, and in that situation, I'm willing to wager training and instinct won over political consciousness.

Point being, things went through an escalation from non-lethal to lethal in the right order. There is no reason besides wanting to be outraged to use that encounter as an example of the system gone wrong. If anyone else had done the same, I have no doubt it'd end the same way.

If we're talking about the drunk fellow in the drive-thru at least.

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10. russle+Av[view] [source] 2020-06-18 00:41:16
>>salawa+Or
Justifying lethal force against people running away astounds me.

It’s one thing if you’re running away with nuclear launch codes, but I’m skeptical that was the case here.

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11. mmm_gr+kD[view] [source] 2020-06-18 02:04:32
>>russle+Av
He was running away with a weapon, though. It's not an easy choice, but better a criminal get shot than he go hurt an innocent civilian.
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12. saagar+HQ[view] [source] 2020-06-18 04:46:41
>>mmm_gr+kD
People have access to actual, lethal weapons all the time! (This is especially true in the US.) That doesn't mean you can just go around shooting people on the off chance that they might go using them against others.
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13. salawa+qc3[view] [source] 2020-06-18 22:36:25
>>saagar+HQ
Those citizens didn't just enter a violent confrontation with a police officer or anyone else for that matter, steal a weapon from who they were struggling with, then book it.

He didn't get shot for having a weapon in his possession; he got shot because of how the weapon ended up in his possession. I'm not saying it should be endorsed as standard operating procedure mind. However, the reaction is far from unreasonable. There seems to be a belief that there is the luxury of extensive time during which one can reason in these types of encounters, and the fact is there isn't. You react and operate on training and protocol.

It is the very reason why protocol does exist; you rehearse it ahead of time so it comes naturally without thinking. When your training involves an effective level of operant conditioning to save your life in the event you have to resort to lethal force, protocol isn't just there for the Officer's protection, but also the suspect's. If it is a mistake, it can be (or should be) resolvable afterward. If the Justice system weren't such a bureaucratic nightmare, it may not even be that big a deal. Once you depart from that protocol though, that cop is going to do exactly what they are trained to do. A) (Hopefully) Protect the Public B)Protect themselves C)Neutalize the threat as quickly as possible. Not necessarily in that order, and not necessarily in a way you and I like or approve of, but IF they follow the book, we tend to grant them the benefit of a doubt. That happened. The officer's tried a peaceful arrest, the suspect escalated, stole the Tazer, Officers realized the suspect was now armed, public nearby, suspect is unresponsive and was hostile. It isn't an unreasonable escalation path at all.

You're mad if you think it's at all reasonable to give an armed, violent assailant the chance to retreat and prepare an ambush, or take a hostage. As I stated earlier, Isympathizewith the suspect for running or being afraid in the current environment. But after he lifted that Tazer, he shifted the operational calculus of the situation, knowingly or (most likely), not. Further, based on previous decisions by the DA, the precedent of a Tazerbeing a lethal weapon was well on it's way to being enshrined, so you really can't even fall back on the whole non-lethal aspect.

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14. saagar+c44[view] [source] 2020-06-19 08:12:47
>>salawa+qc3
I'm unsure if you think the cop followed protocol. If they did, I think the point I am trying to make is that the protocol is flawed if it involves "escalate a situation that is no longer violent". If the officer wasn't following protocol: perhaps it should include this case?
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